If so, why? What thoughts and feelings arise from that? — 0 thru 9

Mostly by design. The mixture of the party system and first past the post elections and the amount of political clout money has and the socio-economic class that people in power belong to. Probably some other stuff too.

You get used to it. It's like a natural disaster. You can prepare for the worst, lean on the people you know and trust, and wait and see what happens.

No. I used to be. I have since joined the Labour Party.

:up: Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me as well (unfortunately)...

Also, (if you wish) it may be relevant to indicate one’s current country of residency. And country of birth, if different.

(I’m in the USA, and voted “yes”.)

No. I used to be. I have since joined the Labour Party. — Sapientia

Thanks for your reply. I am no expert in the UK political party system, but from what little I do know it seems to be a good deal fairer or at least more representational than the USA (for lack of a better way to put it). This based on the sheer number of parties with some elected officials. But please, anyone comment if that is mistaken or misleading. Of course, no country’s system is perfect.

Thanks for your reply. I am no expert in the UK political party system, but from what little I do know it seems to be a good deal fairer or at least more representational than the USA (for lack of a better way to put it). This based on the sheer number of parties with some elected officials. But please, anyone comment if that is mistaken or misleading. Of course, no country’s system is perfect. — 0 thru 9

Yes, it's more of a multi-party system than the US. Of course, most go with one of the two main parties, and more so in the last few years than in previous years, but other parties have been of significance in recent years, such as the LibDems, UKIP, and the SNP. And also, we don't have that weird Electoral College thing.

I don't support any politician, nor do I have any leader(s), in national government. The executive and legislative branches of our Great Republic are made up of people whose primary concern is to line the pockets of their friends and supporters (and their own). Their secondary concern is to please those who provide them with money and support so that they may continue to address their primary concern.

:up: Yes, the “silenced majority” in the U.S. has lost much faith in the two powerful organizations of the Scylla Party and the Charybdis Party. Whichever is in power at the moment, and which is playing “good cop” to the other sides’ “bad cop”, seems not to make an appreciable difference. I’m waiting patiently and expectantly (and would be joyous) to be proven wrong... I don’t know exactly what I was hoping for with Mr. Obama’s presidency, other than the fact that Richard Cheney would have no part in it. But the sense of disappointment, of simply maintaining the “status quo” is difficult to ignore, IMHO.

While alienation is far from being a coherent political philosophy, one would hope that the ideas of the politically alienated would vere closer to a strong and well-deserved skepticism than outright paralyzing nihilism. The skepticism of realizing that there has to be another option, somehow someway. Necessity is the mother of (re-) invention.

Or maybe the big flaw in democracy is that it's a vote maximizing system, as Eliezer Yudkowski suggested.

I don't feel politically alienated. I feel that there are no politicians with whom I am in sufficient agreement that I would be happy to cast my vote in their favour. In my particular case, I would vote for a proper socialist, if I could find one. In my country, Jeremy Corbyn is the closest we have come to this for a very long time. And I will respond to this by voting for him and his party. So maybe I am as far from political alienation as I have ever been? :up:

Political powerlessness. An individual's feeling that they cannot affect the actions of the government. — 0 thru 9

This particular point is hilarious.

The basic point of democracy is to avoid civil war by ensuring that the biggest opinion coalition affects the actions of government, and that power is transferred back and forth between the major shifting opinion coalitions in an orderly way, hallowed by tradition.

The tradition of democracy in the West arose out of numerous bloody civil conflicts in Europe, with strongly held opinions on religious and political issues - it was a hard-won lesson on how to keep the peace in a society full of people with strongly held opinions.

That is all, everything else people wish democracy were and imagine democracy is, is fantasy.

Obviously the individual qua individual has no impact, they are only ever a tiny part of a larger coalition.

trust issues and the feeling of apathy towards how things turn out.

I have never voted. Those that are elected into office are beholden to their sponsors, not their constituents.

I read somewhere about some graffiti once scrawled on a wall somewhere which makes a good point:'if voting made a difference they'd make it illegal'

I'm politically alienated, apolitical, centrist, and politically apathetic.

https://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-data-reveals-that-congress-doesnt-care-what-you-think
Put another way, and I'll just quote the Princeton study directly here:
“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."
So yes, I feel politically alienated, congress does not care what I or the majority of Americans think about voting rights, reproductive rights, gun rights, privacy, taxes or pretty much any other issue.

I read somewhere about some graffiti once scrawled on a wall somewhere which makes a good point:'if voting made a difference they'd make it illegal' — allan wallace

Ha! Lovely dark humor usually eases the pain for a moment. Like is said about Vegas: “the house always wins”.

There are some honest, caring, hard-working people in elected government. Thank goodness for them. Not exactly sure how they got through the screening process. But they are swimming upstream. They are not the pace-setters. The ones calling the shots may plead that the rules of the game may be unfair, but they didn’t make the rules. No, they didn’t. They just follow the unfair rules unquestioningly. Perhaps until there is a chance to make a big haul by sneaking outside the rules. Like a teenager trying to sneak out of the house after dark to go partying, and come back without being noticed. More difficult now with cameras almost everywhere.

Too generalized and too cynical? Perhaps. But we’re looking for the general big picture, and it’s not too inspiring. And any political story in the media that seems “uplifting” reeks of PR, campaigning, and spin control.

I have since joined the Labour Party. — Sapientia

What do you get for joining?

And also, we don't have that weird Electoral College thing. — Sapientia

Sure, go and brag about it! :razz:

Or maybe the big flaw in democracy is that it's a vote maximizing system, as Eliezer Yudkowski suggested. — Marchesk

Any possible further comments on this? Or potential solutions? Not that Washington is listening. Well, they’re listening as in eavesdropping, not caring. :zip:

That is all, everything else people wish democracy were and imagine democracy is, is fantasy.

Obviously the individual qua individual has no impact, they are only ever a tiny part of a larger coalition. — gurugeorge

Well, that one particular point in the Wikipedia article could have been worded better. But I think the gist is accurate of many people. Speaking of fantasy... if before the Middle Class could have imagined that Washington was their cozy chum, that dream is over.

POLL: Are you politically alienated? — 0 thru 9

Is the Pope Catholic?

I voted for "mostly". I was raised to believe politics matter, and in fact it does. Those who wield political power get what they want, and those who have no political power to wield get fucked over by those who do. I voted for "mostly" because I am infested with vestiges of hope that The People will, in the sweet by and by, arise from passivity and at least TRY to take back their share of the country (like, all of it).

Political alienation and hopelessness is not a good thing. People who are really alienated and hopeless are very unlikely to act in their own interests in a strategically effective way. I voted for "mostly" because something may, might, and could possibly happen that would cause renewed interest.

What do you get for joining? — Michael

They tell you here. You get a membership card, you can vote in internal elections, and, after one year, you can put yourself forward to stand as an official Labour Party candidate.

I also get a sense of reward, a sense of being part of something bigger than myself, a sense of community, a sense of supporting a cause I believe in, and so on.

Before I joined, I became a Labour Party supporter, which meant I had to make a small, one off, financial contribution of £5, so I could vote for Jeremy Corbyn in the first leadership election. I then decided to join the party. Annoyingly, at the time of the second leadership election, as I had only been a member who had joined within the last six months, the anti-Corbyn faction in the NEC made it so that I had to contribute £30 to vote, but I paid it anyway and voted for Corbyn a second time.

I also get a sense of reward, a sense of being part of something bigger than myself, a sense of community, a sense of supporting a cause I believe in, and so on. — Sapientia

Sad.

Sad. — Michael

:lol:

Why do you think that that's sad? It's not all mushy and in my head, anyway. There were 552,000 members as of January 2018, all of them making a regular financial contribution throughout the duration of their membership.

Why do you think that that's sad? It's not all mushy and in my head, anyway. There were 552,000 members as of January 2018, all of them making a regular financial contribution throughout the duration of their membership. — Sapientia

552,000 sad people.

Anyway, isn't Corbyn a pro-Russia, pro-Brexit, antisemite? That's what random internet people are saying. Why would you vote for him?

552,000 sad people. — Michael

How dare you try, with some degree of success, to out-cynical me?

Anyway, isn't Corbyn a pro-Russia, pro-Brexit, antisemite? That's what random internet people are saying. Why would you vote for him? — Michael

No, he's not. Those random internet people are shmucks. I would vote for Corbyn because he is a good man, and an inspiration, with good ideas and a willingness and enthusiasm to make them a reality.

Boring.

Sad — Michael

Well, sometimes it just seems like you’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t, and damned before you get the chance to do either. Similar to being in a close relationship. Those that can fight off the distaste and distrust to bring themselves to vote, and otherwise contribute to the political process may be spinning their wheels. Maybe not. People already belong to something larger than themselves. It is life itself. But that is hard to picture or grasp. We also need the rather mundane things too. To keep ourselves rooted somewhere. Ashes to ashes one day, but not quite yet...

Boring — Sapientia

I’mmm so bo-o-ored with the U.. S... A! (Feel free to sing along. It’s our new national anthem. That or “White Riot”. :razz: )

I just realized the irony of asking people who may be politically alienated to vote on something political. :chin: It’s just a poll, but still... you want to say something, even if it’s “ahhhhrrrgggh!!”

Anyway, I agree that one best keep the smallest glimmer of hope. I mean, this isn’t Europe in 1942, things could always be worse. We can shut and lock the door. But it’s too early yet to board up the house, bring out the shotguns, and wait for the opiod and meth-fueled zombie tsunami.