Human beings are known for their wide range of adaptable behaviors. But they are still limited by one's body and shape. A man can never bring an infant to term. A woman cannot fertilize herself. You're confusing the range of things we can do with what we can't based on our size and shape.You still have not explained the cultural aspect of sex (aka gender). You just described different types of physiology that influence behavior. But humans have the same physiology (roughly) but their behavior changes. A man does not have act like a prototypical man, nor does a women. A seahorse does, therefore their sex greatly influences their behaviors. Humans have a wide variety of ways they act, that has changed between cultures. Sex does not cover that at all, which is why gender was/is used to separate it. — yatagarasu
A man can never bring an infant to term. A woman cannot fertilize herself. — Harry Hindu
Human beings are known for their wide range of adaptable behaviors. But they are still limited by one's body and shape. A man can never bring an infant to term. A woman cannot fertilize herself. You're confusing the range of things we can do with what we can't based on our size and shape.
Sure, cultures can vary in what women and men wear, or the jobs that they can do, but they can never change the way we procreate and the specific jobs each sex has in procreation. That is what sex is about. Any other behavior isn't related to sex and therefore would not fall under your definition of "gender". — Harry Hindu
Your feelings to not determine the truth. If that were the case then the feeling Christians get means their God exists. Truth is not beholden to your feelings. The truth is not necessarily consoling to one's feelings. Any logical and objective person understands this simple fact of life.So if I was transgender and have changed my name and have started taking hormones and began my transition, you would still have the audacity to call me a woman? What if I say I am not a woman and that I am, consequently, a man?! What if I feel better as a man? What if I am uncomfortable in my own skin looking in the mirror every day seeing something incommensurate with what is on the inside? — Blue Lux
No, they would still be a man or woman that has a physical problem, just as a transgender is still a man or woman that has a mental problem.There is absolutely no connection between gender and sex. This is a metaphorical correlation and is absolutely non-sequitur. So because someone cannot have children they are thus genderless?! — Blue Lux
ad hominem attacks don't win arguments.You are sick. — Blue Lux
It doesn't relate to the subject at hand at all. The comparison is shallow, you cannot compare a tree to a human in linguistic, they each have a different weight, a male would be masculine and a female, feminine. Is it hard? I'll answer for you. No.What about linguistic gender? Why is tree masculine and plant feminine in German? What are these demarcations of knowledge?
They are arbitrary. — Blue Lux
Again, it's a shallow comparison, the accent doesn't relate to this at all. It has no basis in reality, unlike pronouns.But language is a character performance, really. We show who we want to show, in the end. If I'm at a stripper bar in Montreal I stop using my French accent and switch to my French-Canadian backwater town lexicon. Its just safer. We all perform the language. If its too hard for you to change your performance slightly to help someone who has or has had issues that you are lucky to never have, then I dont recognize in you the same great culture that has fostered tolerance and defended human rights. — Akanthinos
It doesn't relate to the subject at hand at all. The comparison is shallow, you cannot compare a tree to a human in linguistic, they each have a different weight, a male would be masculine and a female, feminine. Is it hard? I'll answer for you — Terran Imperium
Should he be allowed in the women's bathrooms or the women's changing rooms? I'll slap the shit out of him if he dared to do so — Terran Imperium
So if I grow a fake pair of testicles, a phallus, I cut my hair down and say to everyone that I am male, they should accept that? Or that I can just easily enter the men's bathrooms because I am a man now?
It might not seem 'serious' because of double standards but try it the other way around with a man.
He is growing a fake pair of boobs, let his hair grow, put some make-up on and start crying out that he is female. Should he be allowed in the women's bathrooms or the women's changing rooms? I'll slap the shit out of him if he dared to do so — Terran Imperium
So the debate is between two groups in the same culture having different feelings about gender. Whose feelings win out? Whose feelings are more important to console? What about the feelings of those believe in the cultural norm to be upheld?
This is an unaswerable question - just like every ethical question. This is why we should just rely on the simple truths of what a man and woman really are as a product of their physiology. — Harry Hindu
People aren't their gender or sex by a feeling or body. They are so by the meaning of their sex or gender itself.
Feelings, sensations, thoughts are just how people are aware of the s meaning. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Somatic type: delusions that the person has some physical defect or general medical condition (like believing that your body is the wrong sex)
The following can indicate a delusion:
The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force, even when evidence suggests the contradictory.
That idea appears to have an undue influence on the patient's life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him/her, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility. They will not accept any other opinions.
The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient's social, cultural, and religious background.
The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of their psyche.
The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in light of the delusional beliefs.
Individuals who know the patient observe that the belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.
Additional features of delusional disorder include the following:
It is a primary disorder.
It is a stable disorder characterized by the presence of delusions to which the patient clings with extraordinary tenacity.
The illness is chronic and frequently lifelong.
The delusions are logically constructed and internally consistent.
The delusions do not interfere with general logical reasoning (although within the delusional system the logic is perverted) and there is usually no general disturbance of behavior. If disturbed behavior does occur, it is directly related to the delusional beliefs.
The individual experiences a heightened sense of self-reference. Events which, to others, are nonsignificant are of enormous significance to him or her, and the atmosphere surrounding the delusions is highly charged. — Wikipedia
Take for example having long hair and wearing make-up, a dress, and high heels. We tend to think of this as being the traits of a woman despite the fact having long hair and wearing make-up, a dress, and high heels has nothing to do with having XX chromosomes or a vagina. We have this idea of what it means to be a woman that transcends biology.
So let's say someone with XY chromosomes and a penis decides to have long hair and to wear make-up, a dress, and high heels. You might look at their biology and say that they are of the male sex (and they will agree), but they look at the social aspects of their lifestyle and say that they are of the female gender.
As soon as you start to talk about women's and men's clothing or the like you've lost any ground you have in trying to reduce it all to biology (for the most part; something like bras being used to support breasts can be an exception, although given that flat-chested women often still wear bras and large men with "breasts" don't, even that's debatable). — Michael
I admit your point about our ignorance. Yet, it is impossible to ignore the problems discussed in this thread. I think it would be useful to apply analytical tools and concepts developed by Foucault, even though they look too complicated.The complexity is a result of our ignorance on this topic. Occam's Razor dictates that the best explanations are the the simplest. — Harry Hindu
and I am shallow? Actually, the idea of tree and plant was from Nietsche's On Truth and Untruth, not from me. Nietzsche is shallow. — Blue Lux
You are not worth my time if you continue being so hostile. There is a complete disregard of my arguments, you are openly insulting me. I don't see why I should even read your posts anymore. I will ignore you from now on.And that is because you are a piece of sh$t. — Blue Lux
Are you going to take it literally? I wouldn't slap anyone in reality unless they really went overboard, in this case, I"ll just call the police since there is a pervert lurking around in the women's private areas.And you would be charged with assault. So much for being tolerant. — Akanthinos
This is quite a controversial subject to most people, if you get offended easily then I politely ask of you to ignore this thread. Thank you. — Terran Imperium
I apologize if I appeared like a close-minded bitch but when two people in a debate have a constant passive-aggressive or sometimes outright aggressive behavior, it makes one angrier than they should be and they answer in kind which I kind of did.Although I disagree with Terran Imperium and find them a lot less open then they claim to be, I don't think calling them those things will change anything. The same goes with @Harry Hindu. It just breeds more toxicity and doesn't change their minds. Some just want things to stay the "natural" way, even though I, as well as you it seems, see a lot of incredible good that can be had by tossing those conventions to the side. — yatagarasu
Exactly, you are so much more eloquent than me really, I don't think I could have explained it better than you just did now.If a man can wear a dress and make-up then obviously these acts are not what it means to be a woman that transcends biology. There is no transcendental aspect to being a man or woman. It is determined by sex. Gender is simply an arbitrary set of rules for the expected behavior of the different sexes in some culture. You either follow them or you don't. The fact that we can break these rules should be evidence of this. We cannot break the rules of sex though. Once you are born a man, your body tries to revert back to a man after "sexual reassignment surgery" and is why the man has to have stents in his wound in order to prevent it from closing. — Harry Hindu
Right now, we are taking steps backward rather than forward because we are accepting an illness as 'normal'. — Terran Imperium
Mental illness refers to a wide range of mental health conditions — disorders that affect your mood, thinking and behavior. Examples of mental illness include depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders and addictive behaviors.
Many people have mental health concerns from time to time. But a mental health concern becomes a mental illness when ongoing signs and symptoms cause frequent stress and affect your ability to function. (Mayo Clinic)
The personality is fluid. It contains all sorts of potentialities. Consciousness is potentiality. Consciousness consists of it's relation to its potentialities. A consciousness and furthermore a personality is not defined by the expressed. The authenticity of an individual is between the expressing and the expressed. A person expressing themselves to be a certain way is in a sense based upon an appeal to the willing of an inapprehendable object; however, it is this relationality in terms of the object that defines the mode of consciousness associated — Blue Lux
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