In my opinion, the old sculpture and the new sculpture are sub-existences of a whole time sculpture. To say that the whole time sculpture seizes to exist due to one change seems absurd. — HuggetZukker
In your opinion, what thing(s) did Dennis 1967-2018 existentially depend on? You don't have to mention Adam and Eve and all that, just the most immediate non-trivial necessity or necessities. — HuggetZukker
We just disagree here Sam. Do you have any evidence from posthumous works that support the idea that Witt did not follow the conventional notion of JTB? It is my understanding that hinge propositions were meant to dissolve the issue of justificatory regress. It is also my understanding that Witt never found what he was looking for(a single hinge proposition). He called them "hinge propositions"... not hinge beliefs. — creativesoul
First, OC is not meant to support the notion of JTB. That's not to say there aren't examples of JTB in his notes. I don't know of any interpretation of Wittgenstein that thinks his writings are conventional in this sense, do you? Most interpretations think that Wittgenstein's writings are unconventional, and for the most part original.
Second, one could argue that Moore's propositions are examples of what many would consider propositional knowledge. Yet Wittgenstein is going against this notion, demonstrating that these propositions aren't propositions in the ordinary sense, which is why he calls them hinge-propositions. Hinge-proposition aren't epistemological at all, they are arational beliefs. Again, not just my interpretation, but the interpretation of many others who have studied OC.
I don't see how you can possibly think that hinge-propositions aren't beliefs. Wittgenstein starts out by critiquing Moore's propositions, which by definition are beliefs. My ideas of hinge-propositions go beyond what Wittgenstein said, in that I talk about prelinguistic beliefs. Wittgenstein stays within the bounds of language for the most part. There are many hinge-propositions that are linguistic, starting with Moore's propositions (I know this is a hand), are you saying this is not a belief? Wittgenstein's arguing that they are a special kind of belief, beliefs that fall outside the conventional understanding.
Two passages that I believe show the idea that hinge-propositions are beliefs, is the examples given in OC 284 and 285, but that they are beliefs there is no doubt. There are too many examples to list. Wittgenstein never denies that they are beliefs, he denies that they are pieces of knowledge, and knowledge goes beyond mere belief, in that they are beliefs that are justified in some way, according to particular language-games.
It's true that hinge-propositions solve the problem of infinite regress, but that's not the thrust of OC. His main goal is to come to grips with the nature of these kinds of beliefs, and this he never finished. My theory is that they are prelinguistic, and when language comes into the picture they become foundational beliefs that everyone swallows as part of reality.
By the way all propositions are beliefs. Thus a hinge-propositions could very well be called a hinge-belief. In fact, that may be a better way of talking about them. — Sam26
I don't see how you can possibly think that hinge-propositions aren't beliefs. — Sam26
That's quite clever. I laughed out loud! Thanks. — creativesoul
The outline is all about applying common sense to known temporal order(s) and arriving at knowledge of existential dependency(and vice-versa). — creativesoul
Conflating different time periods loses the distinction between Dennis prior to the heart transplant and Dennis after. — creativesoul
The question itself is conflating distinctly different time periods, according to your own example. — creativesoul
The example presents a mundane notion of an existence, and illustrates that the outline doesn't parse it. — HuggetZukker
Is the existence of Dennis 1967-2018 a valid notion? — HuggetZukker
Is the outline meant to deal with any and all valid notions of existence? — HuggetZukker
If yes to both, Dennis 1967-2018 is a counterexample. — HuggetZukker
What besides bias for the premises necessitates the sweeping of Dennis 1967-2018 under the rug in favor of smaller bites fitting conveniently in the mouth of the argument? — HuggetZukker
Wittgenstein goes on to demonstrate that Moore's propositions/beliefs are hinge-propositions. It seems odd to me that you would suggest otherwise. — Sam26
By the way, I'm not judging either way whether or not Witt himself held that hinge propositions were beliefs. It seems that he would have. I'm bit baffled why you would think that I've suggested otherwise. I merely pointed out that I cannot remember any of his notes including "hinge beliefs"... — creativesoul
Where at in OC does he clearly call Moore's propositions "hinge propositions"? — creativesoul
What I clearly remember is his description of bedrock beliefs, and talk of the spade turning up. This fed into his expression of not being able to get beneath language. If hinge propositions are bedrock, and the spade turns up here, then given that propositions are existentially dependent upon language, it would seem that we cannot get beneath propositions(language). He then goes on to further bolster this notion by pointing out how all examples are linguistic/propositional. — creativesoul
he could not conceive that simple, rudimentary beliefs are not existentially dependent upon language. — creativesoul
By the way all propositions are beliefs. — Sam26
I neither believe nor disbelieve this as the evidence and arguments presented so far are equally good on both sides. Pyhrro and Sextus made this into a philosophy to live by where all belief was allegedly suspended — Marchesk
Maybe I could word this a bit better. All propositional claims that something is or is not the case, i.e., that someone asserts as either being true or false, are beliefs. — Sam26
All metacognition consists of pre-existing thought and belief. — creativesoul
Dismissing this view as behaviourism might appeal to some; including those who are more interested in winning than thinking. — Banno
Are your beliefs to be found between your ears? — Banno
This thread is nothing more than a discussion about how we use words like "proposition", "belief", "justification", "knowledge'. — Banno
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.