I have to mention though, that it's often an ordeal for (me at least) a person to go to psychotherapy. It's uncomfortable to talk about your issues and having your preconceived beliefs challenged by a (good) therapist. I don't think to go to a therapist, and having them nod their head and only act as a listener to your complaints about yourself, others, and the world is good. Beliefs need to be challenged for change to happen.

I wouldn't say that it goes either way just because I've heard stories both ways -- sometimes it goes away, and the reasons for that vary (from constant medication to a quick visit to talk therapy); and sometimes it does not, and you need to either always go through talk therapy or medication or both.

Coping only works if you feel like coping is working. For myself, at the moment, I feel that it is mostly because I know I don't exhibit most of the symptoms of depression very often. I can tell when a thought or feeling comes from depression but because I can tell it I am able to say to myself "OK, this is depression, it will pass. I know why it is coming, I know what I would rather be different, but for now I know this will go away"

But if you don't feel like it? Then you try something else.

I suppose I was lucky in the clinic I went to -- they wanted to start with talk therapy but I told them I wanted medication and they were open to it. I kept doing talk therapy with medication but eventually it got to a point where the talk therapy just seemed kind of dumb. It wasn't that I was unwilling to try, it's just that the hour or so that we spent together was basically a conversation you'd have at a bar. I knew there were things I need(ed) to work through, but I knew that the environment wasn't good for me to work through me. I'm the sort of person that works through things on my own time.

But that's just me. For you -- you have to experiment, notate what works, and keep trying other things.

On the other hand if a depressed person tells herself that improving diet and exercise habits is too difficult and/or couldn't possibly help, and so on, then that self-diagnosis would likely be self-fulfilling, I would think. — Janus

Yes, there's an element of fortune telling in the diagnosis of depression. One is depressed because they act depressed, or so the rationale goes.

I wouldn't say that it goes either way just because I've heard stories both ways -- sometimes it goes away, and the reasons for that vary (from constant medication to a quick visit to talk therapy); and sometimes it does not, and you need to either always go through talk therapy or medication or both. — Moliere

Yeah, I can't say I feel all that depressed. Although, I do sit home all day and do nothing productive with my time other than post here or lay in bed. I don't like talk therapy because my therapist want's to get me out of depression, but, I'm comfortable with my diagnosis or live a life that is accustomed to being depressed.

Quite a conundrum if you ask me.

I can't say I feel all that depressed. Although, I do sit home all day and do nothing productive with my time — Posty McPostface

That's part of your problem right there: sitting home all the time doing nothing. In your situation, activity might be quite therapeutic. What kind of activity? Anything that gets you out of the chair, onto your feet, and out the door for a while, doing something constructive, or pleasant, or diverting, or amusing...

There's no deep psychology behind this -- just William James' idea that the way we act (behave) has an effect on the way we feel. The point of getting up, on your feet, out the door, doing something is to activate your executive agency, give your body some physical exercise, and get you into Vitamin D producing sunlight for a while.

I'm sure you know all this. You're obviously a very smart guy. But being a smart guy may not apply to self-knowledge or good self-care. Man, I've been stupid about me while being so brilliant about everything else.

Here's how the Weavers put this old British song

Don't wanna. Can't muster the motivation to do so. Always apathetic and/or depressed.

Nice song though.

Have to listen to 'meet me in the woods’ by Lord Huron

!!!

And read the lyrics!

I disagree with Jake due to the fact that these simple and elegant behavioral tactics or strategies are not able to be realized in full by the depressive. — Posty McPostface

You disagree because you don't actually want to do anything about the situation you are describing, other than talk about it. As is your right.

I think what you are failing to see is that there is no such thing as "talk just for the sake of talk"; all talk has consequences. — Janus

The consequence of talking for the sake of talking is more talking. More talking is ok, I don't object to that. I'm just trying to strip away the illusion that talking will accomplish anything other than casual nerd entertainment. If that is seen and accepted, I have no further complaints.

There is a video by Stanford neurobiologist, Robert Sapolsky, that people can watch on YouTube, where he discusses depression. The alarming thing is that it may became our number one killer in the near future. It's certainly nothing to make fun of, or downplay as if it is no big deal. My understanding is that depression has a way of feeding on itself with positive feedback loops --- one gets depressed, so one does not see people as much. Because one is not interact with other people as much, one gets more depressed, etc., etc.

Too bad we still have a stigma against people with psychological issues like depression. It would be nice if we can accept the fact that a psychological injury or illness is just as harmful as a physical one, and in many cases, more harmful to the person.

I disagree with you in that I think that what may appear to be "talking for its own sake" may lead to changes that are impossible to foresee. It's analogous to how scientific research for its own sake may lead to practical outcomes. You're simply not in a position to know

that talking will (not) accomplish anything other than casual nerd entertainment. — Jake

. It may be true in some cases and not in others. Every person is a different case.

At least talking (even online) is a form of engagement with others. Face to face is better, obviously. Obviously good diet and exercise is better than poor diet and little or no exercise too. This notion you have of simply switching off thought is too simplistically absolutist. Having said that, of course the ability to avoid feeding or even entertaining negative thoughts, to avoid spiraling down into a sense of anxiety and/or hopelessness, is worthy of cultivation. Part of that comes from the ability to objectify through thought, to gain some distance from your plight, and even regard it with a sense of humour.

I'm just trying to strip away the illusion that talking will accomplish anything other than casual nerd entertainment. If that is seen and accepted, I have no further complaints. — Jake

If it were seen and accepted, then something other than casual entertainment would have been accomplished. Thus your effort is doomed to failure, even if it succeeds. This only demonstrates that your talk is fruitless, not that all talk is fruitless.

why hasn't natural selection dealt with depression in evolutionary terms of survival of the fittest genes? — Posty McPostface

Maybe procreation makes for some temporary relief of symptoms?

OR

More likely depression has only come into existence in recent human history, specifically since our minds have become less occupied with survival and all the more with existential questions.

To clarify, I didn't say that all talk is pointless. Talking whose goal is to identify solutions, so that the discovered solutions can be implemented, is good talking. That's not what's happening in this series of threads.

Which is fine. If anyone wishes to talk just for the sake of talking, this is a forum after all, so that's appropriate. However, this is also a philosophy forum and we are supposed to, in theory at least, be reaching for some higher level of clarity.

All I'm suggesting is that if we're going to be talking about depression just to be talking about depression, with no observable movement towards implementing any discussed solution, that we simply say that out loud and make it clear to ourselves what it is we are doing.

I'm not objecting to talking. I'm objecting to going endlessly round and round in circles while pretending we are making progress towards some goal other than going endlessly round and round in circles.

If the thread were renamed "Let's Talk About Depression Every Day Without Ever Doing Anything About It" I'd withdraw all complaints.

Talking and thinking about it may not lead to any " observable movement towards implementing any discussed solution", but it may nonetheless move someone closer to where they can implement some strategy or solution (and not necessarily the ones that have been discussed) for improving their situation vis a vis depression or anxiety.

I'm not objecting to talking. I'm objecting to going endlessly round and round in circles while pretending we are making progress towards some goal other than going endlessly round and round in circles. — Jake

Of course you are not objecting. Pretending to make progress while going round and round is one of the principle activities of humankind.

Perhaps he is both objecting and pretending to make progress while going round and round. Objecting and pretending seem to go hand in hand.

If the thread were renamed "Let's Talk About Depression Every Day Without Ever Doing Anything About It" I'd withdraw all complaints. — Jake

Hmm, that's a tad harsh don't you think? I mean, how does one objectify progress when dealing with depression?

I mean, how does one objectify progress when dealing with depression? — Posty McPostface

Of course it is not possible; @Jake is being silly.

Hmm, that's a tad harsh don't you think? — Posty McPostface

Yes, it is, sorry about that. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to challenge the group consensus, one of the more useful purposes of philosophy. The theory behind the harshness can be explained by the following cliche...

If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

You want to hear that endless talk is useful. Other members of the thread are agreeing with this premise, thus they are understandably more popular than this poster. But it's not the job of philosophers to be popular, but rather to try to help a conversation explore territory not already being examined.

I mean, how does one objectify progress when dealing with depression? — Posty McPostface

Here's an experiment. Do you smoke? If not, please take up smoking until you're up to a pack a day. Then make an observation to see if you are more or less depressed. Pretty simple, eh? That is, if one wants it to be simple.

I hear you that depression is a low motivation state that makes implementing changes difficult. I acknowledge that the reality of that obstacle, and am just suggesting that the choices still are:

1) One attempts to implement some kind of constructive change in spite of the obstacles, or...

2) One should make peace with depression.

The worst option would be to 1) not attempt any change and 2) not make peace with depression, thus leaving one stuck in perpetual distress.

I want to get a new laptop as mine is getting kinda old. But I don't want to part with the money. The path to peace for me on this issue is to make a choice and make peace with the price tag of whatever I choose. Either say goodbye to the new laptop, or say goodbye to the money, and make peace with whatever price tag I've chosen.

Imagine that I was continually starting new threads about my laptop dreams, and never showed evidence of having implemented any of the suggestions of other posters, or any of my own ideas. I just kept talking about my laptop dream day after day after day.

At some point you'd at least be thinking that I should probably shit or get off the pot, right?