From nothing, nothing can be obtained thus the universe always existed — MathematicalPhysicist
If you remove time, you eliminate the need for a start — The Existentialist
If you remove time, there is no prior moment, or subsequent moments. There is only this present moment. — The Existentialist
For the other points, I do not believe you understand the argument as you are still assuming time in your premises — The Existentialist
Time is fundamental to the universe. The speed of light speed limit (speed = distance / TIME) is obeyed by every particle in the universe and exists independently of change. — Devans99
We don't know whether everything obeys the speed of light limit — leo
But to be a normally functioning universe, a speed limit is required. Else it's possible to accelerate objects to infinite velocity and thus straight out of the universe. This was a flaw in Newtonian mechanics that is corrected by relativity.
So we must have a speed limit theoretically; empirically it is maybe the most well tested scientific constant. So the universe has time built into it. — Devans99
I think you're adding implicit assumptions there, why would a speed limit be required if the universe is infinite? (the universe could have been infinite at the time of the big bang already) — leo
light moves slower in presence of gravitation (that's called the Shapiro delay — leo
- The universe is expanding so it cannot be infinite in space else there would be nowhere to expand to
- The universe started with the Big Bang 14 Billion years ago and has been expanding since then; it must have a finite radius — Devans99
- The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says if the universe has been around for ever then it should be in thermodynamic equilibrium by now — Devans99
- Actual infinity is an impossibility (covered here at length: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/4183/do-you-believe-there-can-be-an-actual-infinite/p1) — Devans99
Light has a constant speed; I understand the Shapiro effect to be spacetime dilation, which increases the path length the light has to travel; its does not slow down the speed of light. — Devans99
What is expanding is the distance between galaxies, that's all we infer to expand, we don't actually observe some space substance expanding, the distance between galaxies can increase in an infinite universe, it's a bit of a misnomer to say that it is the universe that is expanding, even though that's a widespread misconception — leo
that doesn't mean the universe can't go on forever — leo
Don't you see how mad infinity is? It's larger than any possible thing. Yet we require it to expand; implying it was not larger than any possible thing. — Devans99
Potential infinity (as in calculus's limit concept) is a great tool. Actual infinity (as in set theory's transfinite nonsense) is not a usual tool; it just leads to paradoxes. Cantor's paradox, Galileo's paradox, Hilbert's hotel etc... — Devans99
it just says an infinite set exists without actually proving anything. — Devans99
They want to show that there is no logical problem with an actual infinity — Walter Pound
There is a logical problem with something you can add to and not change. — Devans99
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