These facts could be used to make a pretty relevant comparison between existence and nonexistence, in my opinion. — TheHedoMinimalist
I don't see how we can conduct a rational analysis of suicide given that we have not the slightest idea of what death is. How does one compare a known to an unknown? — Jake
One is left with a shorter and a longer life to compare, and the quality of the extra life is crucial. — unenlightened
In the case of the suicidal person, the person has a decision to make and he has to rely on whatever knowledge he has to guess if it will be a good decision or not. — TheHedoMinimalist
But he doesn't have any knowledge about death, nobody does. All we have is a circus of competing speculations. — Jake
I think it represents the capitulation of human will in face of nature's oppression on all living beings. The cause of suffering is that we are aware of our existence. When we can't find meaning to existence despite being conscious to it, it creates a self contradiction - a "lack of meaning". Your body follows the mind in this, your brain changes itself if this is repeated. The reason we find it so terrifying is because if you have a meaning, or you still have hope of finding it, it discourages you from the chance of success, chipping away the hope. Not to mention the fact that we all will die, so there is a strong empathy we will with almost everyone who dies, even if they were considered bad. Overall, I see the inevitableness of death as the best reason not to give up hope: why hurry, when you still have time to find meaning? — Fortress of Solitude
Suicidal thoughts are confessed to be bad because at large the people are often considering other things in regards to their own survival; not their death. So usually I come to see that the people at large tend to concentrate on matters that regard their own survival and existance. Anything that goes against this is trash and wasteful. This then causes people with suicidal thoughts to feel even worse about their situation, in all situations to be considered ill-minded when in all reality it is simply a consequence of being an intelligent self-aware individual.
Not to mention the fact that many cannot and will not debate their own existance. Many even here claim that suicide comes from an illness but it is all the contrary. Narcissist fear death the most, next to psychopaths, etc. — Emmanuele
Intersting perspective.It's wrong because it's murder. You don't have that right. It is conceivably worse than murder in long term contribution to death toll through influence. There are three times the suicides as there are murders, implying that it is more contagious.
You are punishing yourself due to some unfulfilled desire, goal, or dream, and it is the losing and clinging to hope of this subpersonality which is punishing the shit out of you, and threatening your murder for your failure to fulfill it. It's what needs offing. It's what needs severing, abandoning, killing. Let it die. Don't let it do that to you.
Pray for help. — All sight
We often tend to think of a rational suicide as committed by a calm mannered person who had realized on the basis of philosophical inquiry that life is not worth continuing. While an irrational suicide is one that we labeled as caused by a mental illness and therefore some of us think we are morally justified in violating the autonomy of that type of suicidal person because we ought to treat some adults like children. I tend to think the most "irrational" suicides are actually the most rational ones. If you are mentally ill and suffering because of your depression, anxiety, or PTSD, you have a better reason for killing yourself than the intellectual who thinks he derived truth about the futility of existence.
As far as the issue of autonomy goes, I do think it is wrong to prevent a suicide from happening in many cases. The justification that because some people are not in their right mind because of mental illness and therefore cannot exercise their autonomy doesn't seem to work for several reasons:
1. Mental illness is a social construct on some level. That is not to say that it's not "real" but rather that the line between a healthy and a mentally ill individual is arbitrarily drawn. Why not raise or lower the bar for what constitutes mental illness? Why not say that the majority of people in our society are mentally ill? We can't simply claim that someone is wrong about their desire to die because our society deems it wrong. We have to have a demonstration of why we have strong reason to think that existence is better than nonexistence. I don't believe that we have that strong reason.
2. Should all people perceived as irrational lose their autonomy? If we use the reasonableness of a person as a marker of "maturity sufficient for autonomy", then should we also be justified in violating the autonomy of anyone we deem as not capable of making good decisions? If someone wants to be irresponsible and spend his life gambling, drinking, doing drugs, and having sex with hookers, then are we justified in violating his autonomy for his own sake? I think it's more reasonable to commit suicide under great suffering from mental illness than it is to gamble away your life savings. But I think we can agree that we should respect the autonomy of the irresponsible people because we think most consenting adults have a right to autonomy without much exception. I think it's safe to say most suicidal people are reasonable enough to fit the category of adults that should be able to act accordingly to their wishes.
3. A person who is suffering from mental illness paradoxically has a good reason to commit suicide. You might suppose that not seeking help for that mental illness first is irrational but let's face us: we don't know how to effectively treat mental illnesses. — TheHedoMinimalist
basically you are saying that the suicidal person ought to be free to fulfil that desire? — Waya
That makes sense. Many people simply don't understand it. It is kinda sad though that some people's best argument is that if the individual commits suicide is that it would make them seem like a bad friend, parent, and so forth. — Waya
Hmm. Maybe we should work more on figuring out how to treat these illnesses. — Waya
Many people struggle with suicidal thoughts and it is often condemned as something terrible, even by those who do not profess any religion. What causes this to be considered wrong? — Waya
In a sense it means this life is not ours to do what we wish with it. Few would argue that we could do whatever we want with something that is not ours. It kinda dovetails into a more secular perspective of social existence. We live for others and they, in turn, live for us. So, suicide would be violating this agreement.
The above perspective makes complete sense when we consider how sacrificing one's life for another is valued as heroic and almost encouraged of us. The ''agreement'' that your life is best spent or, in this case, given up, for others isn't transgressed. — TheMadFool
I suppose you could argue that as long as you are living in a society, you have to abide by the rules of that society. But that just means that it is permissible for you to commit suicide if you decide to move away to a deserted island — TheHedoMinimalist
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