Good. Then what does 'mistaken' mean to you... — andrewk
My feeling is that Kripke finds it unsatisfactory to say it is about 'a world that was identical to this' and wants to say that the key protagonists in the novel are the same entities as in this world, rather than simulacra thereof. — andrewk
because without them there would be no context, just names without referents floating around in the void. — Janus
Kripke doesn't go all the way back to Mill, but he does pry Russell's and Frege's grip off of reference a little by pointing out that we don't always have a definite description in mind when we use proper names and kind names. For instance, I might speak of Albania, but I can't give you a definite description of it. It's a country somewhere over there. I'm sure of that. — frank
I find the notion of 'absolute truth' at least just as flawed as you. It's not helpful here. — creativesoul
What does it mean for a belief to be 'false' if there is no absolute truth?Being mistaken is always a result of having false belief. — creativesoul
Science is forward-looking. It would not matter one whit if Einstein's theory of relativity were irrelevant to Newton's theories of motion and gravitation. It would be easy to conclude that too, as Einstein does not - as far as I recall - mention Newton in his key papers on relativity. We would still use Einstein's theories when useful, and Newton's when they are useful, just as we do now. Fortunately, in most cases, science is about getting results that are interesting or useful, not about scoring points off past writers. I suggest that many philosophers would do well to follow that example.All of Einstein's conceptions would be moot and/or irrelevant to all of that which they expanded upon. — creativesoul
over there" could become 'Europe' or 'Northern Europe' or 'bounded by some set of definite coordinates'. — Janus
, I'd say descriptions don't have to be "in mind" (whatever that could actually mean) but are instead implicit insofar as they constitute the contextual web of meaning and reference in which usages of names are established and maintained. — Janus
I dont think it's in northern Europe. Anyway, you're venturing off the map that N+N focuses on. — frank
Contextual web? — frank
Of course, you're right, and it just goes to show how impoverished is my mental map of Europe or how careless I can be in assuming that I know something when I don't! (I corrected it). — Janus
it were, then how could we critique Kripke's way of looking at things at all without "venturing off the map"? — Janus
Well, you dont want to completely strawman him. I think Mill is probably closer to the view you want to criticize. — frank
I wonder if Kripke would agree that 'the country called Albania' is a DD. — andrewk
I find the notion of 'absolute truth' at least just as flawed as you. It's not helpful here.
— creativesoul
Being mistaken is always a result of having false belief.
— creativesoul
What does it mean for a belief to be 'false' if there is no absolute truth? — andrewk
My definition of a definite desciption would be something like: " Infallibly picks out a particular entity". — Janus
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