You're entirely ignoring the fact that the total sum of suffering is less if you don't kill animals for food. — NKBJ
We can locate where in the brain pain is processed. We know the biological function and process of pain. It's not some huge mystery. — NKBJ
Vegans try. It's the stubborn omnis who want to posit that plants have feelings to and therefore lets slit pig's necks who don't want to change a darn thing about the status quo. — NKBJ
If we follow your assumption that the more animals live the more plants die, then if you wanted to reduce the total sum of suffering over time you could kill all animals once and for all. Why don't you do that? Being a vegan makes little difference. — leo
What you don't get, is that "plants do not feel pain" is not a logical consequence of "an animal's apparent experience of pain is correlated with the detection with some instrument of some activity in some area of its brain" — leo
Why do you assume people who wonder whether plants feel pain are barbarians who enjoy slitting pig's throats? — leo
We KNOW that animals feel pain. We don't know that plants do, and we have no good evidence to suggest that they might. — NKBJ
They are using defense mechanisms to protect their existence, they do not have pain receptors to have them learn their environment but they are trying to send foul odors, poisonous toxins and developing spines to avoid us and nature. — Closed-openmindedness
They're not consciously doing any of that. You can't describe the chemical reactions of a plant, or the physical attributes thereof as a plant "trying" to do anything. — NKBJ
Then the ability to reason is actually not your basis for assigning worth. — NKBJ
they have adapted — Closed-openmindedness
Mutations happen by accident and some mutations happen to be helpful in procreation, while others are not. Someday a plant accidentally grew thorn-like things, it happened to survive because it didn't get eaten, and so it reproduced more, and so on. — NKBJ
I guess there is no logical reason to eat or not eat plants. You can eat them or not eat them. It really doesn't matter. Especially since we already eat animals and they feel pain, there shouldn't be a problem with eating plants if they feel pain — AppLeo
If the suffering entailed by providing human food is not morally bad and plants suffer, then it shouldn't really matter what I eat, plants or animals since suffering entails in all cases. Put this way, ethical veganism sounds like the logical terminus of a reductio ad absurdum instead of a reasoned position — Txastopher
What we should be saying is that causing suffering may be wrong. — Txastopher
Unfortunately, no non-anthropocentric ranking of suffering exists. — Txastopher
I can forgive myself for not being able to photosynthesise and find no need to reject entire taxa as potential sustenance. — Txastopher
You're misunderstanding the entire concept. We have to eat. Some things will have to die in order to fulfill that need. Veganism is the choice to reduce the suffering caused by that need.
Also, if we killed all animals, the ecosystem would go totally out of wack and we'd likely hurt such a great number of plants in the process so as to make the whole thing cause more suffering than just leaving it be.
We can only act on the basis of things we know or can be relatively certain of. We KNOW that animals feel pain. We don't know that plants do, and we have no good evidence to suggest that they might. — NKBJ
All this taken together leads to the pretty darn obvious conclusion that animals suffer. — NKBJ
Vegans = no problem
Proselytising 'ethical' vegans on philosophy forums = Mormon missionaries — Txastopher
Look, if you want to base your diet on an intuitive anthropomorphic ranking of suffering, go ahead — Txastopher
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.