• Arkady
    768
    China, and perhaps large swaths of the Middle East likely have no vigorous public political discourse and debate because the state or attendant monarchy has outlawed it. China in particular is extremely censorious with regard to internet discourse. You will recall that not long ago, Saudi Arabia strangled and dismembered an ex-pat columnist because he had the temerity to criticize the royal family (I recall reading a quote from a Saudi citizen who said that they've traded freedom for movie theaters).
  • Arkady
    768
    We can agree on a problem, yet we have a difficult time to agree on the solution.ssu
    Merely agreeing on the problem can be problematic. Witness the debate over anthropogenic global warming, which probably pretty cleanly, though not perfectly, splits across left/right lines: many on the right don't even think AGW is happening, and so talk of solutions to this nonexistent problem is therefore moot.

    Or regard growing global wealth inequality: some on the left may view this as an outrage of justice, and some on the right may view it as the spoils of victory in a capitalistic economy. That is, the right, while perhaps not disputing that it's happening in this example, nevertheless doesn't regard it as a problem which needs solving.
  • Arkady
    768
    Scientists hate him, see this one trick that makes reactionaries apologise!fdrake
    Your post also melts away belly fat.
  • tim wood
    9.2k
    What your post shows, that Trump has educated Americans in, and what mature folks in other countries have known for longer than we have, is that these word games are not games at all, but are a kind of total war. And if the mainstream media has any failures with this, it is primarily in making this warfare into mere "news" and even something to chuckle about. I'm guessing that with continuing revelations about Trump and Russia, and this obscene and cruel government shutdown, fewer and fewer people are chuckling.

    My view is that the only cohesive idea in all of this, is that it all serves Russian interests. And we have to admire our enemy for how he has and is - and is likely to continue to - manipulate us. But my gosh it's dangerous. Putin gets it into his head he can try to reclaim the Baltic states, or even try the Fulda Gap with a tank or two, and you can cash in your annuities.
  • DingoJones
    2.8k


    Dont forget about China. I think they are a bigger threat than Russia. They are much sneakier and engage in even more information operations, and have the benifit of absolute control over the huge chinese corporations that have inserted themselves on the world corporate stage.
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.1k

    If Chinese leaders had world domination as a goal, they might actually be able to achieve it. They don't though, unlike Russian leaders.
  • DingoJones
    2.8k


    What makes you think they dont want to expand their empire? I think they are just playing a different game than Russia. Russia wants the Soviet Union back, they view it as theirs. After that...sure, probably keep going. The point is, its at the moment about physical power. Land. The Chinese are about information, and dominating in that arena. Like the Ottoman empire, they understand they can assert control without having a military presence. Its not about taking over other countries so much as subverting them. Say what you want about Chinas system, its very efficient. Things get done under a true military dictatorship. That makes them more dangerous imo
  • fdrake
    6.5k


    This might be surprising but I didn't actually have Trump in mind while writing the OP. The alt right views him as a useful idiot, but his rhetoric also pandered to them. I more had in mind the political discourse that arises from or is rooted in the various chan boards. Not to say Trump's rhetoric doesn't have a similar effect of normalising cruelty and (probably intentionally) dominating the news cycles, but pulling this kind of crap as an explicit political strategy of (genuinely) fascist and prejudicial politics predates him.
  • ssu
    8.5k
    My view is that the only cohesive idea in all of this, is that it all serves Russian interests. And we have to admire our enemy for how he has and is - and is likely to continue to - manipulate us. But my gosh it's dangerous. Putin gets it into his head he can try to reclaim the Baltic states, or even try the Fulda Gap with a tank or two, and you can cash in your annuities.tim wood
    The Fulda Gap of today would be the Suwalki Gap or corridor, btw.

    The important issue here is that thanks to a brilliant spy master as head of state, Russia was one of the countries which mastered propaganda in the age of social media. It shows how easily a determined state actor can influence the discourse in social media. I think another far more subtle actor has been the state of Israel. Hence internet and social media didn't give us total freedom as anybody can get his voice heard as sometime portrayed, it just took for a while for state actors to understand the new media.

    Nial Ferguson makes a good comparison about our times and the time the printing press was invented and argues that our time resembles the late 15th Century. The printing press was a huge revolution in the cost of spreading information and creating a way to communicate. While an important positive breakthrough, it also had it's downsides. Europe saw the wars of Religion, where the new ideas were spread through the new media, which hadn't existed before.

  • Metaphysician Undercover
    13.1k
    What makes you think they dont want to expand their empire?DingoJones

    History.
  • fdrake
    6.5k


    Have you watched Adam Curtis' mini documentary Nonlinear Warfare and longer one Hypernormalisation (second one has NSFW images)?
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