Meaning consists in intentionally produced patterns. — Janus
We see rock formations that look like people or human objects or animals or the like. Just as they are “accidents” of nature, they are given “meaning” by the mind of the beholder. — Noah Te Stroete
but from that it does not follow that whether or not there is meaning there is dependent upon our imputations. — Janus
Think about fossils, they lay for millions of years in bedrock until they are discovered and interpreted. They are meaningful in the sense that they are traces or signs that show the kinds of creatures or plants that once lived. — Janus
What if all universes were incapable of supporting life? Would they still hold meaningful information? — Noah Te Stroete
It would have no meaning unless someone who spoke the language the sonnet was written in viewed it. Then intentional meaning would probably be (incorrectly) imputed. It would still possess accidental meaning, though — Janus
If the universe exists without conscious minds inhabiting it, then of course it must embody meaningful information. Which would just mean that there is information there which would be meaningful to a conscious mind if there was a conscious mind. — Janus
It would have no meaning unless someone who spoke the language the sonnet was written in viewed it. Then intentional meaning would probably be (incorrectly) imputed. It would still possess accidental meaning, though — Janus
Weren’t you the one who said I was going to be sodomized by a robot? LOL — Noah Te Stroete
Yes but that is off-topic, or it is an off topic. :joke: — Janus
Please list all aspects of this hypothetical that are wrong because it creates a bit of a problem for your side: So that dictionary (or whatever surviving texts) had meaning when humans were alive, then had no meaning for a long time, then suddenly had meaning again when the next "language capable" being shows up? — ZhouBoTong
How are you interpreting the definition of meaning? google says meaning is (had to combine with definition for "mean" because google uses "meant" in definition of "meaning"): intending to convey, indicate, or refer to (a particular thing or notion); signify. — ZhouBoTong
Where does your side's, "relative to an observer" come from? Don't get me wrong, obviously without an observer there is no one to understand the meaning. But so what? Totally separate point. Maybe someone will come along...right? And when that new person arrives, they do not invent the meaning...right? So it already existed...or not? — ZhouBoTong
The real question is: is there meaning when no life at all exists?
— emancipate
Yes. Linguistic meaning. — S
Its this narrow view of meaning that causes the problemsI am trying, as much as possible, to stick with S notion that meaning is "X means Y" in the sense of a dictionary definition. So meaning is the "particular thing or notion", the symbol conveys. — Echarmion
In order to 'set the meaning', you already have to be able to say what something means. And that is something Rover cannot do, beyond 'sick 'em, Rover', or 'over there!'
— Wayfarer
What? That needs an explanation, because at first blush it simply seems false. Why couldn't I just coin a name at the time? I don't have to say anything. I can just look at something and coin a name for it, then that's what it means in my language. — S
what things are an abstraction, and what even is an abstraction? — S
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