I agree. But the progressives have stolen society. It used to be conservatives, for most of history, with people all having respect for values and morality. Nobody questioned moral standards. People made mistakes and had failings, that's true, but everyone was aware of what is right and wrong. Now there is no moral standard anymore. We see all sorts of despicable people coming on TV - including Trump, Crooked, and all of them. Society has never been so corrupt. It's about time we put an end to progressivism and restore the moral order that has always kept society stable - for a certain time.I, unfortunately, see no difference in the world run however anyone imagines it. The societies of man will always fail. — Heister Eggcart
It's not in my own image. All religious people - according to their traditions at least - would like to see the world this way. No religion for example morally permits sexual immorality, promiscuity and all these disgusting vices. If any religious leader from the past would be alive - he'd march with a sword in hand today. Immorality has never been at the surface as much as today.To think you can change the world and somehow make it better in your own image...naw. — Heister Eggcart
The world is a fiery pit already. It's just that people have to wake up and understand it. We have to bring religion back. We have to bring social order back. We have to bring morality - including sexual morality back. We have to bring back family stability. We have to stop the proceedings of going for an abortion as if one is going to buy candy. Really we're having a lot of problems. It's time we wake up, and take this world back - and Trump, even though he is evil - is like the pitch black just before the break of dawn (as Heidegger would say). We've had enough darkness, vice and immorality. Let's bring it to a culmination with Trump."If the world is not a fiery pit, we'll make it one. Then they'll understand the horror they've turned the world into." — TheWillowOfDarkness
It used to be conservatives, for most of history, with people all having respect for values and morality — Agustino
No religion for example morally permits sexual immorality, promiscuity and all these disgusting vices. — Agustino
We have to bring morality - including sexual morality back. — Agustino
We're still considered progressive abroad? Why thank you!
The Dutch field of grass looks different when you're standing in it. — Benkei
It's amazing how the most vocal moralisers often have the fewest moral principles. — Michael
The world is a fiery pit already. It's just that people have to wake up and understand it. We have to bring religion back. We have to bring social order back. We have to bring morality - including sexual morality back. We have to bring back family stability. We have to stop the proceedings of going for an abortion as if one is going to buy candy. — Agustino
That's the definition of being alpha male. — WhiskeyWhiskers
I meant alpha males, by definition, do not need to sexually assault women. Because by definition they're the kind of man a woman would want to have sexual contact with. Neither do they need to brag about it actually, because any 'alpha male' would not be insecure enough to feel the need to convince others of their status. They're confident and their actions speak for themselves. If you even believe this alpha male rubbish, that is. — WhiskeyWhiskers
And conservatives aren't interested in these I suppose? We don't need progressivism as it is practiced and understood today in order to be interested in all these other important considerations of the state. I haven't criticised progressivism for its attitudes on these issues in any case, so I don't know why you're throwing this red herring out there. I didn't say we need to stop progressivism because it encourages the elimination of discrimination, etc.As if progressives weren't more interested in equal access to education, eliminating discrimination, affordable healthcare, and creating economic opportunities for all regardless of their social class — Baden
Oh so you apparently don't think the growth of technology itself, and improving economic conditions is the major cause of this? It's the ideology of progressivism... You should be aware first of all, that countries like Sweden have proeminent ultra-right groups that are a lot worse than you think I am. These people hate immigrants, and have even been involved in the murder of immigrants. In many other parts of central and northern Europe extremists very similar to the Nazis are rising up. Proeminent ultra-right groups that, by the way, I don't agree with, because they're not socially conservative. But they will rise up, and we may get another war, because some dumb progressives want to let all the immigrants in, and this annoys their own people. But they don't care what their people want - and so they let these nazis rise up. The nazis are the outcome of their own worldview - of its own shortcomings.So, this post isn't aimed at him. It's just to state for the record that to understand progressivism and its impact on society, a quick internet search for the most progressive countries out there, a follow-up search for the term "Human Development Index", and a consideration of the latter's meaning and its correlations with the former could be useful in understanding why we are not dealing here with a cancer that needs the chemotherapy of a corrupt sexual predator with an insatiable narcissism to help excise it from the planet. — Baden
And I've agreed he should be put on trial and probably arrested - after his first term.This is really the heart it it. For all the moralising that Agustino does, he still doesn't understand what every normal, decent person so obviously gets without these grand moral theories of sexual sin. It's so warped. You don't knowingly elect a sexual predator to president. Trump should be put on trial, not into the fucking oval office. You don't give him the success and power he wants. — WhiskeyWhiskers
No, but I have never claimed any of this. I merely claimed progressivism removed sexual morality, and made a virtue out of promiscuity. I claimed that this is merely the outcome of that. Do you disagree?It is also so painfully obvious that sexual assault has nothing to do with progressivism. Sexual assault has always existed as long as there have been people who cannot control themselves sexually when in a position of power over others. Are you going to say that someone sexually abusing a woman in the 6th century was a progressive? — WhiskeyWhiskers
He didn't do it against their will - they let him do it. How many times does one need to repeat that? It's true that he's abusing them, and they should never have let him do it - but they did. Because they too wanted to have sex with a rich and powerful person - like everyone else in a progressive culture, they wanted the social status that comes out of it. It's not my fault that they have continuously since the 1960s been removing all sexual morality and encouraging promiscuity as a source of self-esteem. Men like Donald Trump are the result of that. And what do you want to do? You want to get rid of him, but you want to keep on encouraging sexual promiscuity right? Because that's good for society - so long as they let you do it - but hey, they did let him do it. Is this the world you want to live in? Where men are encouraged as a source of value to have sex with as many women - and where women are encouraged similarly?It has nothing to do with being alpha male, either. Alpha males, which is a stupid bloody term, do not need to molest women against their will. That's the definition of being alpha male. It just makes you a disgusting human being. — WhiskeyWhiskers
I have said Trump personally and his administration will not improve sexual morality. But it will make the problem of sexual morality very clear to the public.How is a Trump presidency going to achieve this? Do you really think that Trump being President is going to stop people from having casual sex? How? — Michael
Exactly.And how is a Trump presidency going to help stop abortion? The Supreme Court has already ruled that abortion is a constitutional right, and that's not something that the President can overrule. The best he can do is appoint a pro-life Justice to replace Scalia — Michael
That's what you progressives want to trick us to believe. You want us to give up - "the ship has already sailed - you'll never get your world back. Go back to sitting in your desk and bear it out - watch how your children abandon your values, just bear it out while we take your world" - who are you to say that? Do you know the future? Otherwise this is just propaganda. The truth is you hope that the ship has sailed - just like how I hope it hasn't.it's simply delusional to think that Trump being President is going to somehow bring back Christian sexual morality. That ship has long sailed. The U.S. has moved on (thankfully). — Michael
Well I have to start by saying that my knowledge of Islam is very limited so please bare that in mind. All that I know is from a few Muslim friends that I've made over the duration of my life and from what I hear in the mass-media. It's true that the mass-media paints a not very nice picture generally. I haven't personally studied the religion in any level of detail so I don't know to say if this is accurate. I'll merely talk about my experience with Muslim people that I've known. In general they were quite nice people - decent, kind and moral. They valued sexual morality - including abstaining from pre-martial sex, promiscuity, adultery and so forth. In fact - these people were ahead of most of the so called "Christians" I've known in terms of this. The only negative I really noticed in some - not all - is that they do insist - overtly or covertly - that you convert to their religion. But apart from this dogmatism, those that I know have been good people, at least in their behaviour towards me.Muhammad's laughing beneath his green dome. — Heister Eggcart
"You're never going to get that" is the lie the progressives are telling us every single day. They want religious believers to sit down and accept their dominance over the world. And I don't want to do this. Why should religious believers sit down? They manipulate us - they say "Oh you are such moral people - you can't break your principles and vote for someone who doesn't represent you... you can't tell others that their way of life is immoral... you go back to sitting down while we reshape your world the way we want to... you just have to ride out the wave, don't worry, just take a seat - the boat has already left". That's what they're telling us. And obviously the truth is I don't know if Judaeo-Christian moral values can be brought back in Western society. But the complementary truth to this, is that the progressives don't know that they can't be brought back either. So all we have to do is take up the sword and fight for what we believe in - just like they're doing. They're doing exactly the same thing. Why should we let them do it? That's why they're beating us - that's why they're winning. I don't think the world is fixable - I hope it is, but I have no certainty in this. I will try to change it for the better.You're never going to get that. You'll be searching for that forever, all the while propping up creeps like Trump in the delusion that he'll help fix the problem. It's quite frankly shocking how on one hand you say that the world is fallen, yet think it to be entirely "fixable", to coin some Trump terminology. — Heister Eggcart
Well WW, tell me is there a conflict between the secular ideology of progressivism and religious believers judging by their creeds? Yes or no?Us and them, them and us. It's like a child fitting together on a board two basic shapes that only have one possible arrangement and feeling comforted by the simplicity because he can understand it. Like a jigsaw puzzle with one piece black and one piece white. Your view of the world is so grossly oversimplified and abstract that it bears no relation to reality. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Well WW, tell me is there a conflict between the secular ideology of progressivism and religious believers judging by their creeds? Yes or no? — Agustino
There are differences amongst, say Evangelical Christians, of course. But there is a core which is shared by all. Sexual morality for example is shared by all Christians - because it's part of their Holy text which guides them.Once you actually start to define the terms in detail, and point to the populations of actual people holding to those strict definitions, you begin to realise that these are extremely vague concepts that are significantly grey in reality because peoples diverse range of beliefs don't neatly map onto your simplistically defined categories. — WhiskeyWhiskers
No I deliberately ignored what you've said because I think it's a mischaracterisation and doesn't reflect the truth. What can I say about it other than that? It's just false. There are beliefs which unite entire groups of people. Not all beliefs will be shared, there will be many differences. But there are also similarities - which is what you ignore. If there was no common thing that all Christians shared - we couldn't call them Christians in the first place!You don't seem to possess the self-awareness to realise how revealing that admission was to the rest of us. Which is why I compared your thought to a child's when they feel comforted by the lack of complexity their understanding is required to grasp. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Sexual morality for example is shared by all Christians — Agustino
Does the Bible state that promiscuity, fornication, adultery and sex with women other than your wife is immoral?No it isn't! This is completely your own projection. — WhiskeyWhiskers
Why should we keep on losing? Because they're telling us, and brainwashing us from childhood that we've already lost, not to bother? I will bother - because even if we have already lost, it's honorable that we fight to the end - upholding the truth and the light. Isn't that what we're called to do as religious believers? That we will live proclaiming the truth, and fighting for the truth? — Agustino
I haven't assumed you to be that, I said there's the tendency for all of us to be manipulated this way. Also what makes you think that I think of you as a "liberal peasant"?I also find it toilsome that you have the nerve to assume me some liberal peasant that has been brainwashed and manipulated — Heister Eggcart
Sure. So I've asked you some questions in that post, so that we can have a conversation and think freely. Why don't you let me know what your position is on these issues. I'm curious honestly to know.Sorry, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I've sipped from a spiked glass of kool-aid and now cannot think freely. — Heister Eggcart
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.