WHAT was actually learned? The difference between good and evil? Human nature? How to fake (not) your death so you can elope with your 13 year old girlfriend that you have known for 3 days? — ZhouBoTong
I certainly agree that if students are not engaged (interested being the main component) then learning will suffer. And it does seem that high school English classes turn more people off of reading than they do create life-long readers. — ZhouBoTong
They would also have a grasp though on elements of the work like plot and characterization that most wouldn't. — Baden
I suspect though if I read more intelligent criticism on it, I might understand it more and be able to enjoy it more. So, I expect it is a great work of art despite my inability to get into it. And the fact that many intelligent commentators and readers appreciate it is at least part of the reason I feel it's worth pursuing more than stuff that's been universally panned — Baden
To be fair we coudl choose to look at “Transformers” as being an exploration of human religions regarding it as a commentary on how we anthropomorphize inanimate objects and how this has led us to animate inanimate matter in the creation if machinary stemming from the humble “rock” as an extension of the arm (the “hammer”) into flying vehicles and machines that can carry us to others worlds. — I like sushi
Of all the possible reasons why a group of critics might reach a conclusion about the quality of a book (fashion, group dynamics, academic pressure, ignorance, stubbornness, narrow-mindedness, personal bias...) what is it that convinces you that their improved knowledge of the book is the primary influence? — Isaac
You're mistaken. Lord of the Rings is on the curriculum in many school districts in many countries. — mcdoodle
It is tempting to compare a game with a story to a movie and, obviously enough, plot seems to be somewhat important to a movie (although Michael Bay, some might claim, endeavors to prove otherwise). The idea of plot being the most important aspect of poetical works (broadly and classically construed to include theater) dates back at least to Aristotle. To steal his argument regarding tragedy, the following argument can be given for the importance of plot in games that have a story element.
Important to emphasize you can separate liking or disliking a work from recognising its artistic merit. — Baden
You left out some of the other reasons critics may have for reaching a conclusion about a book, ideas like: quality of writing, plot, characters, grammar, pattern and rhythm, tone and style, symbolism, setting, themes, imagery and so on. — Brett
Would you consider reviews of books by other authors as at least having some basis for making judgements on ‘merit’? — Brett
I think you still know what I mean with regards to the 'elite' who are the subject of the OP. In some respects, its {LOTR] inclusion on the curriculum rather proves the point. There was obviously some suggestion to include it, a complete lack of compelling evidence to the contrary, so on what grounds the previous snobbish dismissal? — Isaac
It’s like saying that posters on this site are just ‘geeks with dictionaries’ and they all disagree so philosophy is a con and that Plato, Hume, etc. mean something because they have their followers, that it’s all subjective, that philosophy is a fashion of the times. — Brett
But there's still a giant gap between this skill, and their opinion that certain subjective reactions being produced in certain ways are 'better' than others. — Isaac
I'm an art-maker not an elite member of a critical group — mcdoodle
It's quite a common thing historically for popular art to be denigrated by one generation of arty-farts, then revered by the next. Take Rodgers and Hammerstein's musicals, Simenon novels, Shakespeare indeed. — mcdoodle
When you've worked hard to create art of some kind you feel the work and the knowledge in it. — mcdoodle
There is a body of practical opinion in any art-form which values some work more than others, and these valuations derive from experience and reflection. If you don't value such opinion, then to my mind you're missing out on part of the pleasure and understanding you can derive from any given art. — mcdoodle
To enjoy Shakespeare you have to do some background work: I think that's rewarding, — mcdoodle
That's my considered view. I don't think it's 'snobbish' or a 'dismissal' nor do I think it 'compelling evidence'. It's just something to weigh against other views. We only have our opinions, but they can be considered and well-informed, and I will respect them more if they are. — mcdoodle
In some ways I think art should be elusive or rebellious. The elites always arrive after the fact, it couldn’t be any other way. — Brett
The objective merits of art are a lot harder to pin down than attacking the elites. So I find Zhoubotong in the same camp as those he atracks, he attacks the elites instead of finding objective merit in Michael Bay’s work. — Brett
sult. The objective merits of art are a lot harder to pin down — Brett
Who are these elites anyway? Academics, critics, money, art galleries? — Brett
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