WHAT was actually learned? The difference between good and evil? Human nature? How to fake (not) your death so you can elope with your 13 year old girlfriend that you have known for 3 days?
— ZhouBoTong
It’s convenient to pass off ‘Romeo and Juliet’ this way, it helps your argument. What could be taken from the play, if you bothered is: ideas about male honour, public order, the individual against power institutions, religion, public order, love, violence and death, and love and violence. — Brett
Ok. I believe I could find nearly every one of those themes in the Transformers series — ZhouBoTong
Are they helping the average person find art that moves them? I would say no. They are just searching for like minded individuals to join the elites. Same way a Star Wars fan wants to entice more people to his (I would add or her, but not likely, hehe) side so they can all bash the Lord of the Rings together. How many people become life-long readers of Shakespeare (or anything) after high school English class? — ZhouBoTong
You’re being a bit tricky there. I didn’t say you wouldn’t find those elements in The Transformers. It was in reply to the scathing comment on your idea about the contents of Romeo and Juliet. — Brett
But you’re helping me with one thing. I prefer the elites to you and I’d rather the elites pushing their ideas down my kids throats than your ideas on art. — Brett
Do you really believe that there are no real differences in quality between comparable things? That some movies, food, TV programs, paintings, photographs, novels are not better than others? That it's all just a matter of preference? — T Clark
I can recognize the difference between what I like and what is of high quality. — T Clark
I'm a bit sheepish doing this, but I wanted you to see why I'm so passionate about this. How important it is to me. And not just me. Lots of other people feel the same way about sharing their experiences with others.
A couple of years ago, I read "Titus Groan" and was knocked off my horse. After all these years I am amazed when I find a book that moves me as much as it did. I gave it to a lot of people that Christmas. Because if is such a daunting book, I wanted to tell them why I gave it to them, so I wrote a review on Amazon and gave them a link. If you want to read it, here it is.
Six stars. Eleven stars. 432 stars. Tedious and bleak and beautiful. Funny and moving. Wonderfully written and very, very, very slow. Then suddenly, disorientingly sensual. Gormenghast the castle – miles long; dank, moldy, full of hundreds or thousands of unused rooms packed with useless and peculiar things. A tower where the death owls live. A giant dead tree with painted roots growing out the side of the castle. Lives ruled by inflexible, all-encompassing, oppressive, and unrelenting tradition. Gormenghast the land – always raining, too hot or too cold. Gormenghast the mountain – the peak always hidden by clouds.
The people - Lord Sepulchrave, 76th Earl of Groan, Countess Gertrude, the wonderful, pitiful twins Ladies Cora and Clarice Groan, Mr. Flay, Dr. and Irma Prunesquallor, Swelter, Nannie Slagg, Sourdust, Barquentine, Keda, Rottcodd, Pentecost, The Poet. The Grey Scrubbers. The Mud Dwellers who live outside the castle and spend all their time making beautiful carvings, most of which will be burned. The best of which will be placed in a museum that no one visits. And stuborn, 15-year-old, clumsy, and maybe doomed Lady Fuchia, whom I love with all my heart. And nasty, scheming, capable, admirable, and maybe evil Steerpike. And 1 1/2 year old Titus – 77th Earl of Groan. Everyone; almost everyone; odd, eccentric, and unhappy.
The plot doesn’t matter – for what it's worth, there is Titus' birth, scheming, betrayal, murder, suicide, a deadly knife fight, bodies eaten by owls, endless ceremonies, drunken revelry, and a toddler standing alone on a raft in the middle of a lake in the rain. The writing, the place, and the people do matter. The words grabbed me by the neck and forced me through the slowest, hardest sections. It felt like the hood of my jacket had gotten caught in a subway door and I was being dragged down the platform. I love this book.
This says exactly what I want to tell people about the book. What I want them to know. Now, they can read it or not. I don't really care, although I love it when someone tells me they enjoyed something I recommended. — T Clark
Yes, and I couldn't be more certain of it. — Terrapin Station
The only way that something like that can make sense is that you're making a distinction between what you like and what other people like. It would make zero sense to say, "This is/isn't of high quality, but that has nothing to do with whether anyone likes it." — Terrapin Station
I need to soften my language but aren't you just searching for like minded individuals that share your joy of a certain work? — ZhouBoTong
Oh, and you questioned who "they" was that kept telling my tastes were bad. "They" (that I have a problem with) is our education system. — ZhouBoTong
As I said in one of my earlier posts, maybe one of the differences between you and me is how long I've been out of school. Anyway, once you're out of school, "they" won't be able to bother you anymore. Did you think school was supposed to be wonderful and fun? No, it's work. — T Clark
I'm looking for like-minded individuals. In reality, the connection doesn't get made a lot of the time, but when it does, it's extremely gratifying for both people involved. — T Clark
They are the most god-awful candy possible — T Clark
I said "I can tell the difference between what I like and what is of high quality." — T Clark
Thanks. I am 37. I teach. — ZhouBoTong
What makes candy "good" is that a person likes it. — ZhouBoTong
If you're 37, why are you still letting "their" opinions bother you? — T Clark
What makes candy "good" is that a person likes it.
— ZhouBoTong
Obviously, I don't agree. I don't think there's any way for us to get past this disagreement. — T Clark
But to regard teaching Shakespeare at school as the elite forcing it down students’ throats is probably inaccurate. — Brett
but as a teacher you would recognise the whole area of ‘The Zone if Proximal Development’ here and the importance of setting work that stretches their abilities. There just seems to be a lot more in terms of teaching studying Shakespeare than ‘The Transformers’, hence it’s regular appearance in the curriculum. — Brett
Shut the fuck up, Donny. :lol: — Noah Te Stroete
There is very little art taught in schools anymore. The only art that is still taught is Poetry and Literature. — ZhouBoTong
But there is another type of elitism in school that suggests reading is a more important skill than listening to words (and I would agree in 4th grade, not so much in high school). — ZhouBoTong
Damn. That whole scene is just gold. And you forgot, "Nobody f***s with the Jesus!" — ZhouBoTong
I didn't say "This is/isn't of high quality, but that has nothing to do with whether anyone likes it." or anything like it. — T Clark
They can’t do this with a film. There’s no room for interpretation in ‘The Transformers’, all they can do is watch it passively and then write an analysis of it. — Brett
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