Wittgenstein had a nice solution to stop bothering about these kinds of problem, basically do we ever observe infinite things? No we only observe finite things, and our concept of expansion stems from our observations of finite things that expand, so it is meaningless to apply a concept that applies to finite things to something that is not finite. — leo
But even if you got cosmologists to stop talking about an infinite space that expands, that wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things — leo
I see it as one battle in a war. I believe infinity is impossible in general. There are proofs but people don't buy the proofs. So I've settled for trying to show each instance of infinity leads to a contradiction. Infinite space is one of these instances. — Devans99
Distant galaxies are flying apart... — Devans99
I guess it is expanding within nothingness. — Devans99
Devans99
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↪Isaac
The universe could just be finite in time and space. That is a nice simple model that fits the facts.
I don't think it's the case that we need some 'number' other than infinity to describe the universe. The size of the universe is a number, numbers have fixed values, so the size of the universe is a finite number. — Devans99
The 'size' of the universe" MAY not be a number at all. — Frank Apisa
Your pontifications are used gratuitously in order for you to arrive at "the universe is not infinite" which you need for wherever you ultimately want to go.
Can you truly not see that? — Frank Apisa
Whether space is expanding along with the galaxies or it is constant while the galaxies expand within it is yet to be determined. — BrianW
Devans99
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The 'size' of the universe" MAY not be a number at all. — Frank Apisa
Thats a contradictory statement - size is always a number. — Devans99
Your pontifications are used gratuitously in order for you to arrive at "the universe is not infinite" which you need for wherever you ultimately want to go.
Can you truly not see that? — Frank Apisa
If we adopted your approach to philosophy and science which seems to consist of 'I don't know' and 'its unknowable' I think progress would grind to a halt.
1. An infinite universe should have no boundaries so cannot expand — Devans99
2. There is nothing beyond an infinite universe to expand into — Devans99
3. Expanding means that size(t1) > size(t0). IE we know the universe was once smaller than it is today. There is only one kind of infinity here; size is an Aleph One infinity. So size(t0) must be a finite number. — Devans99
4. The universe can't have been expanding for ever; if we trace back in time far enough, we will always find a point in time when two distant points are co-located so no further expansion is possible. Hence the universe must have finite size. — Devans99
In english, this means there exists something that when you change it, it does not change. Absolute nonsense. — Devans99
If we all held the same viewpoint there would be nothing to discuss thus no philosophy discussion forum. — Devans99
- There are no proofs that infinity does exist. — Devans99
↪SethRy Modern physics seems to be leaning in the direction of spacetime having a start: — Devans99
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