Are you saying that ideas do not exist? — Frank Apisa
YOU are not the determinant of what can or cannot exist. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.2k
Are you saying that ideas do not exist? — Frank Apisa
They're not nonphysical. Nothing is. — Terrapin Station
YOU are not the determinant of what can or cannot exist. — Frank Apisa
The world is. I'm not going to pretend that I can't observe it.
Okay, if nothing is nonphysical...then any gods that exist are nonphysical also. But, like ideas, you cannot put a tie on 'em. — Frank Apisa
Then get "the world" to tell me what can and cannot exist. — Frank Apisa
Options
Terrapin Station
8.2k
Okay, if nothing is nonphysical...then any gods that exist are nonphysical also. But, like ideas, you cannot put a tie on 'em. — Frank Apisa
I'm assuming you meant "Then any gods that exist are physical." — Terrapin Station
That's fine. As I said above: "[If we're talking about something that only has physical aspects, then] I don't know what we'd be talking about. [This] alternative would need to be specified better before I'd bother with it." The first thing I'd want specified is where whatever we're talking about is supposed to be located.
S
9.2k
Then get "the world" to tell me what can and cannot exist. — Frank Apisa
We can in some cases determine with logic what can and cannot exist. That which the existence of which would imply a contradiction cannot exist. So that rules out a number of gods from the enquiry. — S
S...respectfully as possible...I think it is best we not engage in any further discussions. — Frank Apisa
I said what I meant to say. — Frank Apisa
If you are of the opinion that an IDEA is NOT nonphysical...then an entity god could be nonphysical. — Frank Apisa
If a translation of your "nothing is nonphysical" is that the only things that are nonphysical — Frank Apisa
are things that do not exist...
then you are saying that ideas do not exist.
I asked you to furnish the single most important piece of evidence that shows that no gods exist. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
I asked you to furnish the single most important piece of evidence that shows that no gods exist. — Frank Apisa
Importance is subjective. I don't know what you're going to consider more important on this end.
I don't consider any piece of evidence more important than any other for this. I look on my desk. There are no gods there. I look on the sidewalk in front of my apartment. No gods there. None on the moon, either. Etc. All of equal importance to me. — Terrapin Station
From what I gather...you are suggesting that since you cannot see any gods on on your desk, on the sidewalk in front of your apartment... — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
From what I gather...you are suggesting that since you cannot see any gods on on your desk, on the sidewalk in front of your apartment... — Frank Apisa
Not seeing, per se. No evidence of them.
Ideas aren't located on desks. They're brain phenomena. There's plenty of evidence that they're brain phenomena.
Maybe you'd want to suggest an alternate place to look for evidence of god phenomena? — Terrapin Station
YOU are the one claiming there is evidence that there are no gods — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
YOU are the one claiming there is evidence that there are no gods — Frank Apisa
Correct. There is evidence that there are no gods. Everywhere we check--no evidence of any gods. That's evidence that there are none. That's evidence that something doesn't exist. You suggested that maybe we're looking in the wrong place. So I'm asking you to suggest where the right place to look might be. — Terrapin Station
None of that is evidence that no gods exist. — Frank Apisa
The fact that no human can "check" and find something is NOT evidence that a thing does not exist. It is merely evidence that we humans cannot detect it. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
None of that is evidence that no gods exist. — Frank Apisa
Yes it is. The only way it wouldn't be is if god is supposed to be located someplace where we haven't even checked. In lieu of specifying a location, or in a situation where god is supposed to be omnipresent, the more places we search but come up empty is the more evidence that there is no such thing as a god. — Terrapin Station
There would need to be some plausible reason why it's not detectable. What's the plausible reason? — Terrapin
That doesn't just go for gods, it goes for everything. — Terrapin
There's no reason to believe that anything exists if there's no evidence for it, and there's reason to believe that it doesn't exist if searches do not turn it up. We'd need a plausible reason to believe that something isn't detectable in order to believe that. — Terrapin
If you want to think that because you see no gods on your desk or on the street in front of your apartment is evidence that no gods exist...
...then it is also evidence that nothing that you are not able to see on your desk or on the street in front of your apartment is also evidence that nothing else exists. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
If you want to think that because you see no gods on your desk or on the street in front of your apartment is evidence that no gods exist...
...then it is also evidence that nothing that you are not able to see on your desk or on the street in front of your apartment is also evidence that nothing else exists. — Frank Apisa
Again, it's not just about seeing. Can we get that straight first? Let's see if we can settle anything. — Terrapin Station
Terrapin Station
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↪Frank Apisa
Well, it's not even limited to sense. At least not directly. It includes any sort of evidential detection from any instrument, too. For example, something like a spectrometer, or an oscilloscope, or a neutrino detector--any sort of instrument we can imagine. — Terrapin Station
...and YOU still come up with "If humans cannot detect it...it does not exist"...which is absurd. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
...and YOU still come up with "If humans cannot detect it...it does not exist"...which is absurd. — Frank Apisa
So, you're believing first off that some things are not going to be detectable in principle, right? — Terrapin Station
I do not do "believing." — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
I do not do "believing." — Frank Apisa
Yeah, you do. Everyone does. — Terrapin Station
The word(s) you use for it are irrelevant. — Terrapin
So what would be the basis for the notion of some things being undetectable in principle?
If you are asking me about something I wrote...quote what I wrote. I will flesh it out my words if that is what you are asking. — Frank Apisa
Terrapin Station
8.3k
If you are asking me about something I wrote...quote what I wrote. I will flesh it out my words if that is what you are asking. — Frank Apisa
I'm asking you about this:
"...and YOU still come up with "If humans cannot detect it...it does not exist"...which is absurd."
How are you getting to "there are things that are undetectable in principle" — Terrapin Station
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