All these god threads go to exactly the same place, especially when people defy reason and expound imaginary proof. Could you imagine how many innocent people would suffer if as a society we punished based on "proof" in the absence of evidence?

Oh wait, that was standard procedure under dark age theocracy, when all of these "proofs" of god were documented...hmm.

And we cannot reasonably conclude that the chain is a) undefined or b) doesn't exist, because a) every single event in the chain is defined by the cause prior to it, and b) his claim that it doesn't exist is based on the fallacious assumption that a first cause is necessary for the chain to exist. He hasn't justified this assumption, he just assumes it. — S

Your problem is you are just considering isolated elements in the chain and saying yes, they each have a predecessor. So individually it makes sense but when we examine the system as a whole - it has no start - so the system as a whole is impossible.

...when we examine the system as a whole - it has no start - so the system as a whole is impossible. — Devans99

No, that is just your completely unfounded and unreasonable belief, Devans. It is a belief that you are psychologically attached to. The only bit that you're right about is that it has no start, but that goes without saying. Your conclusion doesn't follow, and a repetition of your argument - your refuted argument - won't change that.

I already told you. Im not interested in that right now. Im trying to find out why you think everyone disagrees with you, and rejects what you are saying as nonsense.
Are you willing to commit, barring someones declaration of strong atheism, that your position is that ALL the people saying the exact same thing about your “probability” basis and its lack of validity lack the comprehension to grasp your argument? — DingoJones

I don't necessarily think you can't put a probability on the things he came up with. Its just i'm not sure enough steps (correct procedure) were taken in the algorithm to come up with a better statistical probability for those event to occur. In some cases probability is more easily calculated and in other cases it takes a tremendous more amount of care and attention to come up with a better probability of something occuring.

christian2017
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I already told you. Im not interested in that right now. Im trying to find out why you think everyone disagrees with you, and rejects what you are saying as nonsense.
Are you willing to commit, barring someones declaration of strong atheism, that your position is that ALL the people saying the exact same thing about your “probability” basis and its lack of validity lack the comprehension to grasp your argument? — DingoJones


I don't necessarily think you can't put a probability on the things he came up with. Its just i'm not sure enough steps (correct procedure) were taken in the algorithm to come up with a better statistical probability for those event to occur. In some cases probability is more easily calculated and in other cases it takes a tremendous more amount of care and attention to come up with a better probability of something occuring. — christian2017

If you are talking about whether or not there is life after death...WHICH YOU SHOULD BE...

...there is NO WAY to assess probability in either direction.

None...zero...nil...zip.

You can guess.

You may guess right...and if you guess "Yes there is" or "No there is not"...it is certain you may be right.

The guess itself could as easily and logically be based on a coin toss...as on any of the bullshit that has been offered here so far.

The probability estimates being offered are a joke...and anyone giving them any consideration above being a joke...is a joke also.

The guess itself could as easily and logically be based on a coin toss...as on any of the bullshit that has been offered here so far.

The probability estimates being offered are a joke...and anyone giving them any consideration above being a joke...is a joke also. — Frank Apisa

Stop whining you troll. If 100 people came back from the dead somehow and said they saw xyz while they were in this other state, that would certainly add information to the whole issue. Anytime you add information to a particular topic that also adds the ability to apply statitistical analysis to that particular topic. Your a joke. Stop trolling.

christian2017
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The guess itself could as easily and logically be based on a coin toss...as on any of the bullshit that has been offered here so far.

The probability estimates being offered are a joke...and anyone giving them any consideration above being a joke...is a joke also. — Frank Apisa


Stop whining you troll. . — christian2017

I do not whine...and I do not troll.

If 100 people came back from the dead somehow and said they saw xyz while they were in this other state, that would certainly add information to the whole issue. — Christian

IF 100 people could shit gold...those 100 people would not have to work very hard, would they?

Your comment was dumb...by every metric imaginable.

Anytime you add information to a particular topic that also adds the ability to apply statitistical analysis to that particular topic. — Christian

Nobody is adding anything of value for a statistical analysis of whether or not there is life after death.

Not one goddam thing!

Your a joke. Stop trolling — Christian

"YOUR"...Jesus H. Christ. Bad enough you spelled statistical wrong in the earlier sentence...

...BUT "your!"

Ask teacher what is wrong with that.

Ask one of the other kids on the playground! They'll tell you.,

Ask one of the other kids on the playground! They'll tell you., — Frank Apisa

Lol, so far thats pretty much what this forum is typically. I'm no different. I do agree either the OP or someone else needs to sit down and flesh out the statistical analysis of life after death. To say its impossible to gain knowledge of life after death is clearly outside of your current expertise.

christian2017
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↪Frank Apisa


Ask one of the other kids on the playground! They'll tell you., — Frank Apisa


Lol, so far thats pretty much what this forum is typically. I'm no different. I do agree either the OP or someone else needs to sit down and flesh out the statistical analysis of life after death. To say its impossible to gain knowledge of life after death is clearly outside of your current expertise. — christian2017

Respectfully as possible, Christian...anyone who thinks they can calculate the probability that there is life after death (or that there is nothing after death)...is kidding him/her self.

It is possible to gain knowledge about the issue, however. It is possible to realize and acknowledge that what happens after death is unknown.

We can guess.

Ya gotta be satisfied with that.

thats fine for now.

So totalling up, that gives 28% chance of life after death. I am a sort of glass half full sort of guy so that might be on the generous side. — Devans99

I keep dying yet I’m still alive so your calculations must be off :)

Why do you keep dying?

What if life is but a dream and dying is waking up? Maybe you go through an arbitrary large number of deaths, each time awakening at a higher level of consciousness until finally you awake and you are a god?

It’s pretty damn hard not to if you stay in the continuum! Even once the change stops I’ll not be able to let you know so why concern yourself?

Anyway, is wishing for immortality an optimistic or pessimistic drive? I’d rather NOT not end thank you very much! ;)

Anyway, is wishing for immortality an optimistic or pessimistic drive? I’d rather NOT not end thank you very much! ;) — I like sushi

I think its a very natural drive; self preservation is our number one instinct, so its not surprising the instinct extends to beyond the grave. There is a 'proof' of the after death that CS Lewis favoured - we would not be endowed with a drive for life after death unless it was actually achievable. Don't buy it myself.

Is atheism is a more defeatist attitude that agnosticism? I think it is certainly pessimistic to assign a 0% probability to life after death. My 28% is pretty optimistic. I'm generally glass half full.

Thiesm - 100% conviction in life after death - unreasonably optimistic IMO.
Atheism - 0% conviction in life after death - unreasonably pessimistic IMO.
Agnosticism - somewhere in between seems correct IMO.

All I’m saying is if I found out I’d live for eternity I’d be SERIOUSLY pissed! Sounds like a oneway road to insanity to me.

You’ll find that a great deal of elderly people a quite contented to die eventually. As Freddie said “Who wants to live foreverrrrr!!”

There is the question of whether it is eternal life with the option of escape (IE death) or eternal life period (with no possible escape). I take it you don't like the sound of the 2nd, what about the 1st?

No thanks. I’m sure it sounds superficially appealing to many others though. I’ve faced death - seriously - head on. Once you accept it and work past the troubling thoughts it’s more about wanting some control over how you end rather than wishing not to.