I didn't ignore them. I directly responded to them. — Michael
These are responses? Make it clear to me how they're responses? They're plain evasions. So what is it? Stoned? Stupid? Liar? Tell me. I'd like to know. Or just a joker, not to be taken seriously - certainly not to be respected.Or another way: your thirteen-year-old sister starts taking illegal drugs. Do you say, "You go girl! You're going to have a great time! Let me know if you need any money...". Is that what you say?
— tim wood
I used to sneak alcohol to my brother and sister when they were that age.
Sketch for me a scenario where the taking of illegal drugs does no harm to any person or community
— tim wood
Why? That wouldn’t address my concern. Rather I can sketch a scenario where harm might be caused by recreational drugs and yet the activity isn’t immoral - that of S and his stoner friends camping in the woods. — Michael
That's a very tough road. Clearly you know about the harm that illegal drugs cause.I was a meth addict for 17 years, it had its toll on everyone in my family — Daniel Cox
What was indirect about it? Is that what "some people, [your] family & friends" would say, that you caused them no harm directly?Yeah, I got a bit crazy doing drugs and some people, family & friends, were hurt indirectly, — Daniel Cox
How did they get the illegal drugs, and where from?
— tim wood
What if the drugs are magic mushrooms, that were grown at home or picked in the fields? Where's the necessary harm in that?
Your reference to source seems to imply that by buying illegal drugs one would be supporting criminal activity, which is by definition harmful to communities. That may be so, but legal activities may also be harmful to communities. Gambling, online and in clubs and pubs, for example? Buying cheap goods from third world companies or buying pretty much anything form some multinationals you are supporting legal, but unethical exploitation and the terrible harm it causes to third world communities. — Janus
Conversely, we can be naive and claim that we don't know where the heroin someone is doing is not supporting evil empires or states, like the Taliban. Most drugs have some point of origin and fund some activity.
As I say, it would be naive to feign ignorance and claim that it's a non-issue. But, some drugs are rather harmlessly attained, as you mention magic mushrooms or pot. Not all drugs have been made by North Korea, for example. — Wallows
So, what it really comes down to is; what is the real difference between legal and illegal activities, morally speaking, if we are using harm to define something as immoral, given that at least some illegal activities do not seem to harm people and communities, whereas as at least some legal activities do seem to harm people and communities. — Janus
Is it your position that illegal drugs cause no harm, and if they cause harm there is no immorality in it? — tim wood
No, my position is that you haven't justified your assertion that if something causes harm then it is immoral. Perhaps some things are acceptable even if they cause harm. — Michael
No, my position is that you haven't justified your assertion that if something causes harm then it is immoral. Perhaps some things are acceptable even if they cause harm. — Michael
Is it your position that illegal drugs cause no harm, and if they cause harm there is no immorality in it? — tim wood
But a salient point is made about alcoholism. There are alcoholics who claim they're not alcoholics. But the criteria they do not use is the criteria that counts: does the alcohol use create problems in living for the user and his community? Yes as recurrent occurrence? Then alcoholic. Does the drug use create problems for the user and his or her community? Then immoral (among other possible things). — tim wood
drugs will always retard the development of a well functioning society or community. — Wallows
drugs will always retard the development of a well functioning society or community.
— Wallows
Viz. hippies — Merkwurdichliebe
First you asked me to describe a scenario with drugs that doesn’t cause harm and I explained how such a question doesn’t address my critique, which is that even if drugs cause harm it might not be immoral to take them. Given that I haven’t claimed that taking drugs doesn’t cause harm, why are you asking me to describe a scenario where they don’t? — Michael
We just don't seem to be getting to the point at all on this issue, but just kind of going around and around, traversing a downward spiral. The end point will come when we all disappear up our own arses if we're not careful! — Janus
We just don't seem to be getting to the point at all on this issue, but just kind of going around and around, traversing a downward spiral. The end point will come when we all disappear up our own arses if we're not careful! — Janus
Puzzling it is...and annoying! But I seem to be controlling myself for now... :halo: — Janus
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