One can know that they do not accept another's behaviour without judging their behaviour in any robust sense of moral judgment. — creativesoul
One can know that they do not accept another's behaviour without judging their behaviour in any robust sense of moral judgment.
— creativesoul
That is prejudice - prejudgement... — Merkwurdichliebe
We need this new reporting to dovetail with the previously established groundwork.
— creativesoul
Not yet... but we are examining internalization and ethical authority, which are variables of societal conditioning — Merkwurdichliebe
There are also new criterion being employed that are not quite up to snuff. Our foundation for drawing conclusions is supposed to be based upon a universal criterion. New claims are being levied that are not based upon the same solid ground. — creativesoul
We could say, that early on in the development process of ethical indoctrination the roles are distinct. But as the ethical pupil matures, the roles become equivocal. — Merkwurdichliebe
The question becomes, when does the individual cease to respond to the judgement of the ethical authority, and come to rely on his own judgement of himself? — Merkwurdichliebe
I was just positing the authority of the ethical authority to be absolute in relation to the pupil. That is due to the fact that he judges the ethical pupil, not the other way around. It's not a democracy — Merkwurdichliebe
What I'm prying into is whether or not the story is worthy of assent. — creativesoul
Moral thought/belief is an entirely different mode of nonmoral thought/belief. Its primary function is judgement. Moral thought/belief requires the faculties of conceptualization and abstraction, which only come after language acquisition and linguistic thought/belief. — Merkwurdichliebe
That conclusion is at odds with our criterion for what counts as being "moral", which was arrived at by virtue of what all things moral, and/or called "moral" have in common. — creativesoul
That conclusion is at odds with our criterion for what counts as being "moral", which was arrived at by virtue of what all things moral, and/or called "moral" have in common.
— creativesoul
And what is that. A common mode of belief, that I say has a common function: judgement. — Merkwurdichliebe
All things moral are about acceptable/unacceptable thought, belief, and/or behaviour. — creativesoul
Judgment is moral thought/belief. Not all moral thought/belief is judgment. — creativesoul
Moral judgment - in the conventional sense - is existentially dependent upon adopting a worldview replete with morality. — creativesoul
Descriptive accounts of acceptable/unacceptable thought, belief, and/or behaviour.
The example is this discussion... — creativesoul
All thought/belief about acceptable/unacceptable behaviour are moral - in kind. That is precisely what they all have in common that makes them what they are as opposed to other kinds of thought/belief. — creativesoul
Some moral thought/belief is prior to language acquisition. — creativesoul
I wouldn't call the common core of all thought/belief 'primitive morality'. Primitive thought/belief? Sure. Not all thought/belief is rightfully called "morality". Rather, morality is codified thought/belief about acceptable/unacceptable behaviour(thought/belief that is moral in kind).
Morality is codified moral belief. Laws.
— creativesoul
No dispute, here. I just meant to clarify your position. I would say, if there is a primitive morality, it comes well after primitive [prelingustic] thought/belief. Hopefully we can discover approximately where that occurs. — Merkwurdichliebe
You've lost the distinction which began this all. Thought/belief and thinking about thought/belief. You've also rescinded the earlier agreement regarding what all things moral have in common. You've arrived at incoherence as a result.
Now you're just repeating conventional mistakes. I've no time at present. I can and will point them out clearly later on if you're interested. — creativesoul
Consider, that early in life, the infant begins to evaluate the desirable somewhere in the interplay of her nerve stimuli, and her emotional responses. As primitive as it is, this does constitute a valuation, despite the absence of any language skills. The primitive level in which value is imposed on emotional affection does not constitute a proper ethical judgement - it is more like an observation of what seems pleasing to me, rather than a moral choice about what I ought to do.
Then we can think about the toddler who has begun to acquire language. At this point, he is being linguistically conditioned (with some corporal conditioning) so that he can be assimilated into the culture to which he belongs. It is somewhere in this process that the evaluation of his primitive valuations commences; most importantly any evaluations of his primitive valuations are primarily acquired externally from culture, and not internally as a result of primitive valuation.
I hope this takes us one step closer to adequately understanding the source of morals. I could be mistaken, it's a terrible tragedy.
— Merkwurdichliebe
That's not a bad summary of pre linguistic thought/belief as it pertains to morals. — creativesoul
I will point out right now, that we never established that prelinguistic thought/belief is moral in kind. I've considered the the entire discussion that they aren't. Based on that, everything I've said is spot on and mostly coherent. Just reread everything and you'll see. — Merkwurdichliebe
There's far too much that we(seem to) agree upon to abandon the discussion. — creativesoul
Consider, that early in life, the infant begins to evaluate the desirable somewhere in the interplay of her nerve stimuli, and her emotional responses. As primitive as it is, this does constitute a valuation, despite the absence of any language skills. The primitive level in which value is imposed on emotional affection does not constitute a proper ethical judgement - it is more like an observation of what seems pleasing to me, rather than a moral choice about what I ought to do. — Merkwurdichliebe
Then we can think about the toddler who has begun to acquire language. At this point, he is being linguistically conditioned (with some corporal conditioning) so that he can be assimilated into the culture to which he belongs. It is somewhere in this process that the evaluation of his primitive valuations commences; most importantly any evaluations of his primitive valuations are primarily acquired externally from culture, and not internally as a result of primitive valuation. — Merkwurdichliebe
I hope this takes us one step closer to adequately understanding the source of morals. I could be mistaken, it's a terrible tragedy.
— Merkwurdichliebe
That's not a bad summary of pre linguistic thought/belief as it pertains to morals.
— creativesoul
Here you did not object to my point. Let me slightly rephrase it for clarity: the level of prelinguistic thought/belief, at which value is imposed on primitive emotional affection, does not constitute morality - it is an observation of what seems pleasing to me, rather than a moral thought/belief concerning acceptable/unacceptable intention/behavior. You actually seemed to agree. — Merkwurdichliebe
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