There is a reason why we can understand who is a winner of a game, which food is healthier, and what photo better documents corresponding news article. And there is a reason why certain piece of art is better than the other. — Henri
The reasons are that we have ideals, desires, goals, etc. and we can judge whether some things meet them, no? — Terrapin Station
How would we narrow it while saying something accurate? — Terrapin Station
Apparently I don’t need nuance as you seem to regard nuance as “elitist” — I like sushi
So Zhoubotong goes for film first as a learning tool over the written word, or at least regards it as an equal.(I’m think that’s his position). — Brett
I get the sense that you were thinking I want to replace half of all literature with films. — ZhouBoTong
There's justification for it, and not only a little. Art has a purpose, and when we understand the purpose we can understand which piece of art fulfills it more. — Henri
How was art defined in this thread? Piece of art is human product with primary purpose to provide you with an impression of human experience through passive consumption (no interaction), usually through sight and/or sound. — Henri
Is there a photograph that can give you more depth, width, impression of human experience - as a piece of art — Henri
With that said, how much of a human experience was impressed into you through seeing Transformers movie? — Henri
And if you couldn't do it now, it wouldn't be because of subjectivity, but because of lack of exposure and experience. — Henri
So in a way art is a closed circle. — Brett
But, because students don’t want to engage with books is no reason to let them have it their way. However, if I was going to use a film for the purpose of education it wouldn’t be ‘Transformers’. — Brett
Some get William Burroughs, some don’t, some get Harold Pinter, some don’t, some get Van Gogh, some don’t, I never have. But I accept the love others have for him. ‘Transformers’, nah. — Brett
But I could teach the concept of "symbolism" just as well using a Transformers movie, and many other concepts as well — ZhouBoTong
Maybe, just maybe, it is possible to be of average or even above-average intellect, and not like all of the classics? And maybe, such a person would find more value in artworks that have not historically been highly valued. Crazy, I know, but if such a person exists, there is nothing in the definition of art to suggest that they are wrong...unless you see something I don't? — ZhouBoTong
Well, you liked Armageddon - which I took some pleasure in, I mean Steve Buscemi...- but you might find yourself looking down on someone who thought vomit was art or soap operas. You might not. But it's worth a look, because if you find that you also would judge some things as not every good, then you are like theIt seems a given in educated circles that Shakespeare and DaVinci created "better" art than, lets say, Michael Bay (makes movies that many would consider "low brow" like Transformers or Armageddon). Is there even a little justification for this? — ZhouBoTong
I'm pretty radical when it comes to education, so I dislike forcing anyone to learn certain things or pushing aesthetic issues - and I think this even backfires. I've had to overcome resistence to certain classics because they were forced on me. So the dynamic I can be critical of also, but here's a difference between Michael Bay and, say, The Brother's Karamazov.However, once convinced of their superiority, the elites are happy to force their tastes on the rest of us (I never learned anything about Michael Bay movies in school) and they even have the audacity to suggest I am wrong when I say "I like x better than y". Why are we teaching opinions in school? I appreciate the discussion of opinion in school but there should only be judgement of the justification, not the opinion itself. — ZhouBoTong
we need statements from the artist saying what the purpose of the art in question is, because the purpose in mind can be different for every artist who has a purpose, and for every work they create. An additional problem with this aspect is that we need to be able to sort out whether a stated purpose is really the purpose the artist had in mind, or whether it's not instead just positioning for the sake of marketing, or maybe it was something that's not very accurate but the artist said it because their gallery, or agent, or whatever, was pressuring them for an artist's statement, or maybe the artist see's the statement about purpose as an artwork in itself, or any number of other possibilities. — Terrapin Station
Surely art is presented to you (to us) by the artist, and we like it or we don't. I can imagine that, sometimes, the artist might pass along some idea of her intention, but is this really necessary? — Pattern-chaser
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