What is the ontological status of words and their meanings? — Matias
which is your goal is to goad people into wasting time — boethius
That's not at all the case. You have really poor reading comprehension, as you've demonstrated over and over again. — Terrapin Station
which is your goal is to goad people into wasting time and you will work backwards to whatever statements and beliefs are necessary for that (which you have stated is your goal), then it follows you've just selected the belief that you believe will maximize your goading potential. — boethius
I never read that. — Terrapin Station
I only read the above by the way. — Terrapin Station
If anyone else has something to say then cool, otherwise I guess I can continue believing it’s a sound argument. — AJJ
Stephen R.L. Clark’s God, Religion and Reality
— AJJ
I will mention that I googled this book and looked at the Amazon preview, and that I think it looks a good book. — Wayfarer
According to Terrapin “fact” means the same thing as “is the case”, which means the same thing as “state of affairs”, which means “fact”. But he never actually said what these terms refer to outside themselves. — AJJ
I would say that they refer to something that is true, and we ought to believe true things. What do you say they refer to? — AJJ
your goal is to goad people into wasting time — boethius
Your view seems to be that statements and propositions are true when they correspond to something that is neither true nor false (so how do they ever correspond?)
It seems to me I’m stating the obvious here. — AJJ
But you won’t say what a “state of affairs” actually is. — AJJ
Basically states of affairs are relations of existent things. Things exist and they are situated in certain (dynamic) ways with respect to other existent things. Those are states of affairs. — Terrapin Station
If we're using the word "truth" to refer to the matching of propositions-to-states-of-affairs, you're saying that states of affairs are part of the objective matching of propositions-to-states-of-affairs? — Terrapin Station
Fine. I’m saying those relations are part of what is True. — AJJ
I don’t know why you’d refer to the matching as “true”. — AJJ
Okay, but that's not how we're using the word "true." We're using the word "true" to ONLY refer to propositions matching states of affairs. — Terrapin Station
The reasons stem from (a) an analysis of how people use "true," functionally (which can therefore be different than what they have in mind), and (b) a realization that there's a problem--the same problem that EricH just pointed to above--if we treat "true" as a property of states of affairs. That problem enters the picture when we try to account for "false." We either wind up having to posit some very wonky ontology, or we wind up having to say that "false" is a very different sort of thing (in the "natural kind" sense, basically--the sort of ontological thing that it is) than "true" is. — Terrapin Station
False is what is not True. — AJJ
"We" as in S, EricH, etc. and I, as well as analytic philosophers in general. — Terrapin Station
And that "what" is what exactly ontologically? What sort of thing is it? — Terrapin Station
Whatever the state of affairs, statement or proposition is in question. “The cat is on the mat” is false if the cat is not on the mat. — AJJ
Can a thing be false and thus part of the capital F False? — EricH
No - it just wouldn’t be part of the Truth. — AJJ
I said something very specific/qualified about that. Hence you demonstrating poor reading comprehension. — Terrapin Station
I'm not that interested in it, really, but I enjoy going back and forth with people who act like as much of an unjustifiably arrogant asshole as you do, especially when I can goad you into typing so much in response to short answers. — Terrapin Station
I said something very specific/qualified about that. — Terrapin Station
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