Not dying quite soon enough can be extremely bad. Like, if the stroke you had while driving had been just a little bit worse, death would have ensued immediately, but because the stroke wasn't quite bad enough, you lived just long enough to experience what it is like to find your delightful self engulfed in flames, and one's skin (then deeper flesh) being charred, and one's lungs filling up with hot, horrible smelling smoke, and yet you still aren't quite dead...

That's fairly bad. Even worse are Islamic terrorists causing sewers to back up and explosively ejecting great quantities of feces into the toilet stalls of America, including the very one you are occupying, drenching you in indescribable, unimaginable slime and filth.

Not dying quite soon enough can be extremely bad. Like, if the stroke you had while driving had been just a little bit worse, death would have ensued immediately, but because the stroke wasn't quite bad enough, you lived just long enough to experience what it is like to find your delightful self engulfed in flames, and one's skin (then deeper flesh) being charred, and one's lungs filling up with hot, horrible smelling smoke, and yet you still aren't quite dead... — Bitter Crank

Points for vivid imagery..

That's fairly bad. Even worse are Islamic terrorists causing sewers to back up and explosively ejecting great quantities of feces into the toilet stalls of America, including the very one you are occupying, drenching you in indescribable, unimaginable slime and filth. — Bitter Crank

Points for originality.

Only in an unfortunate world would someone like the pessimist exist and actually be wrong about their pessimism. By its very existence, pessimism validates itself. — darthbarracuda

Interesting.. can you explain further? The self-validating pessimist.. Isn't it a bit strong to say though that being wrong on a theory proves the pessimistic point? Or is it rather that being wrong about pessimism is bad because, even if pessimism is wrong, the mere fact that others can feel this way proves that a world exists that has people that feel this way and thus shows the non-idealty of the world to allow people that can feel this way about the world. The pragmatist would just chortle that this is simply the fault of the pessimist, not the universe.

Claus Harms (1778–1855), German evangelical minister

Daniel Harms, author of the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana

Daniil Harms (1905–1942), English transcription: Daniil Kharms, Russian writer

Friedrich Harms (1819–1880), German philosopher

Hermann Harms (1870–1942), German botanist

Johann Oswald Harms (1643–1708), German painter, engraver and scenic designer

Monika Harms (born 1946), German Attorney General

Rebecca Harms (born 1956), German politician and filmmaker

Clyde Harms (Born 1931), Founder Aruba Scholarship Foundation

You have provided many unique harms. Good job.

Interesting.. can you explain further? The self-validating pessimist.. Isn't it a bit strong to say though that being wrong on a theory proves the pessimistic point? Or is it rather that being wrong about pessimism is bad because, even if pessimism is wrong, the mere fact that others can feel this way proves that a world exists that has people that feel this way and thus shows the non-idealty of the world to allow people that can feel this way about the world. The pragmatist would just chortle that this is simply thefault of the pessimist, not the universe. — schopenhauer1

Yes, I made a blog post on this a while back (shameless self-promotion). Basically, pessimists argue that harmful illusions exist. And you have Stoicism and Buddhism both arguing that ignorance (or the illusion of knowledge) is the cause of all suffering. But I would put it one step further, and claim that, from a more Heideggerian perspective, we are part of the world, not merely "bystanders". The universe produced us. And thus it is capable of producing such harmful ignorance. And like you said, more pragmatic visions essentially boil down to victim blaming. Even the victims themselves are willing to blame themselves, as a method of maintaining order and stability.

Anybody mention "harms way" -- out of which we try to stay"?

The universe produced us. And thus it is capable of producing such harmful ignorance. And like you said, more pragmatic visions essentially boil down to victim blaming. Even the victims themselves are willing to blame themselves, as a method of maintaining order and stability. — darthbarracuda

Indeed. I agree that the way to put a lid on any consternation is to simply say it is the victim's fault. It's a great trick really.

According to scientists, there are at least two trillion galaxies. Each galaxy has 1 star around which a life-supporting planet revolves, and on which intelligent life now exists. That makes two trillion planets loaded with intelligent beings who are much more subject to harm than they are benefit. There are, thus, billions of trillions disappointed and annoyed individuals nattering away about the unfairness of life -- RIGHT NOW!

According to scientists, there are at least two trillion galaxies. Each galaxy has 1 star around which a life-supporting planet revolves, and on which intelligent life now exists. That makes two trillion planets loaded with intelligent beings who are much more subject to harm than they are benefit. There are, thus, billions of trillions disappointed and annoyed individuals nattering away about the unfairness of life -- RIGHT NOW! — Bitter Crank

So you are saying that the situation can be that much more? On each of those planets does there also exist Elders and nasayers who blame the aliens for not being able to cope with the harms well enough as a feedback mechanism to ensure self-conscious beings find existence well enough to perpetuate itself? Perhaps they are just at the stage of bacterial slime mold or insect larvae in which case they have a couple hundred million years to go.

GUILT, HELPLESSNESS, HATE

- for enjoying modern day comforts knowing that these are built upon the immense suffering of countless generations before us and the continued suffering of marginalized people in some not-so-remote place

- for the very being of your existence means that you have to burden other people at work to ask favors, at your leisure time for other people to entertain you, and eventually when you get disabled for other people to look after you

- for thinking badly of your work that puts food on the table; of your colleagues for burdening you with tedious work then eventually try to convince yourself that somehow it's just part of their job and the system;

- for believing that other people are fellow sufferers but feel completely powerless to comfort them; for having to go to vacation and have to see stories of suffering play at the back of your mind for each stranger that you encounter

- for failing to be a bottomless source of joy to others in this world of selfishness; because you too are human; and when people fault you for your moment of weakness, you doubt whether it was your fault all along

- for not even being strong enough to keep your own troubles and weakness to yourself that you risk showing a crack that may cause worry or fear to people around you

- for feeling hopeless as you watch in the sidelines as you imagine close acquaintance's kids have to suffer and eventually perpetuate the cycle of suffering when they grow old


#badday #badweek

That's a really good list of harms. I like that you bring up the nuance that our pleasure may rely on enormous amounts of pain that are so indirect or removed, we do not usually think about it.

Also you bring up a good point about cognitve dissonance.. We know the work is what provides our survival but we also tend to hate many of the tediousness and unpleasantness associated with it. With the idea of work you also bring up the idea that our needs cause others to have to work as well, thus contributing to the cycle.

Thanks. I was really quite "upset" earlier but thankfully, things got a little bit more manageable lately. So if I may add to the list:

- having mood swings and emotional outbursts just like that then recovering after watching some drama series (like what's wrong with me? hahaha...)

- "getting over" then partly regretting what you have done during your outburst; feeling quite worried that you'll inevitably let loose some steam some future time you least expected and you no longer have an idea what harm you could do by then

- realizing that after all that has happened, nobody knew the depths of sadness that you've been through, and nobody else would probably know; life goes on, the world does not seem to care, and by the way, you have to better get ready for work tomorrow as if nothing just happened!

- realizing that after all that has happened, nobody knew the depths of sadness that you've been through, and nobody else would probably know; life goes on, the world does not seem to care, and by the way, you have to better get ready for work tomorrow as if nothing just happened! — OglopTo

This is an interesting point.. It is funny how all this drama in your head can ensue.. this internal emotional suffering.. and how it can be negated simply cause there is no context to even explain the emotional strife.. No one seems to understand, care, empathize, or give a shit. This is why a philosophy of pessimism is a consolation and provides dignity to the individual. At the least, it does not give short shrift of your pain by dismissing it, ridiculing your voicing of it, etc.

I do want to distinguish it from a regular bitch session where you are directing it very personally about a person or group of people.. Rather it is an existential bitch session where the suffering is put into a context of how it fits into the harms of existence. We can see each other as fellow-sufferers and are in the same boat.

I'm not so sure about the worth of pessimism. Whenever I think about all this stuff, especially how suffering greatly outweighs pleasure, and pleasure itself seems mostly just a reduction or cessation of some pain/suffering experience or another, I feel like I should just kill myself. I mean if life really is how the pessimist describes, why live?

I think you're probably better off not being aware of any of this, like a child, or a cat. Being aware that you suffer is itself a type of suffering.

I'm not so sure about the worth of pessimism. Whenever I think about all this stuff, especially how suffering greatly outweighs pleasure, and pleasure itself seems mostly just a reduction or cessation of some pain/suffering experience or another, I feel like I should just kill myself. I mean if life really is how the pessimist describes, why live? — dukkha

Why indeed? I would argue that life does not give us any reason to continue to live - any reason must come from the individual themselves. This is why Nietzsche said that those who continue to live (not just survive) have a purpose or a sense of meaning.

I think you're probably better off not being aware of any of this, like a child, or a cat. Being aware that you suffer is itself a type of suffering. — dukkha

Unfortunately, being unaware and ignorant often causes more suffering than not. At the very least it is irresponsible.

Bring out your harms! Any good ones today?

Dumbass new atheists...

Crikey.

There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.

But you must explain the harm so we can all be explicitly aware..

Disappointment with a collective group of ignorant plebs.

Disappointment is a big theme in pessimism. So many instances.

What they're calling "new atheism" isn't very different than Madalyn Murray O'Hair and her American Atheist organization, which became active in the 1960s, as well as the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which became active in the 1970s. Both camps are/were activist-oriented, extremely anti-religious, they've regularly filed lawsuits against religous infiltration and influence on government/public institutions and activities, etc.

So I don't know how "new" any of the "new atheism" is, unless we're considering the 60s "new," in which case I'm happy to be young again.

@darthbarracuda
That the only exit is suicide rather than a pleasant sleep that lasts a long time. That after sleep comes the awake part and all the energy, stress, and exposure to harm that comes with it.

I'd love to spend a few days hanging out with you, schopenhauer1, to see what your life is like.

That harm that comes from your dog whining that she wants to be let outside while you sleep but you ignore her so she stops for just a little while so you're able to go back to sleep but she persists every few minutes and you know eventually you'll have to let her out and you just wish you had done it sooner so as to not have her keep waking you back up sort of like an alarm clock that goes on and off periodically and you just wish you'd have yanked it out of the wall instead of just wishing it would go away.

I call this the stress of procrastinating the inevitable and wishing you'd have dealt with it sooner.

I call this the stress of procrastinating the inevitable and wishing you'd have dealt with it sooner. — Hanover

Yes a common harm. But, even if you deal with it early on, there will always be some other alarm going off to take its place.

My favorite haiku:

After weeks of watching the roof leak
I fixed it tonight
by moving a single board

After weeks of watching the roof leak
I fixed it tonight
by moving a single board — Hanover

“Certain it is that work, worry, labor and trouble, form the lot of almost all men their whole life long. But if all wishes were fulfilled as soon as they arose, how would men occupy their lives? what would they do with their time? If the world were a paradise of luxury and ease, a land flowing with milk and honey, where every Jack obtained his Jill at once and without any difficulty, men would either die of boredom or hang themselves; or there would be wars, massacres, and murders; so that in the end mankind would inflict more suffering on itself than it has now to accept at the hands of Nature. In”
-Arthur Schopenhauer

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