Nothing short of an equivalent to the Enlightenment in the Islamic world is necessary, in my opinion. — Thorongil
Sigh. Nothing ever went wrong with this reaction to terrorist activity except that ISIS consists of ex-generals from the Iraqi military, members of ISIS come from those families destroyed by the Iraq war, among others. Oh, Europe, you keep digging a deeper hole for humanity."We are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. When terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities, they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together, and does not let itself be moved." — Francois Hollande
In response to 9.11 we hit the wrong person, even though he was a war criminal, Saddam Hussein didn't have any direct correlation to the events of 9.11 but he was an easy target. The rest of Aristotle's challenge was satisfied but without it ALL being satisfied, the ripple effect of our decisions are still being felt and reacted to.Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/11/14/Arab-states-denounce-Paris-attacks-as-violation-of-human-values-.html
Hopefully, somebody will shed a tear for these too, if they 're not so unworthy — Πετροκότσυφας
As I was watching the horror unfold in France, the inevitable 'what would you do?' came to mind. I then think of the debate that takes place with almost every nation and the USA regarding the personal protection that a legal firearm provides. I am not saying that personal firearms would have changed the situation, I just wonder if the knowledge that the audience could be armed, might likely be armed, would have changed the appearance of these events being 'soft targets'. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
No, it wouldn't. A terrorist act aims at inflicting fear. You can do that even if you end up killing no one. — Πετροκότσυφας
I respectfully disagree. The golden time of intervention of such a hostage taking is immediate and with force. I think of what would happen at a concert venue here in the USA, even where firearms are forbidden, those who are security at the venue would be armed and able to respond. In that massive of a crisis, the first to react would be the ones with the best window of opportunity to neutralize the threat. It is a of a lot hell faster than assembling a task force to figure out a way in. Grant you, the USA does the same in assembling task forces where hostages are involved but venues are required to provide security equal to the implied threat.This would do nothing whatsoever to deter terrorism. — Mayor of Simpleton
I will not deny that what you say is a risk but not enough to discourage a citizen to take personal responsibility for their safety and those around them.If anything, this would give cause to violent overreactions; thus increasing the chances of people being shot for really no reason other than fear of something that may be terrorism that is not. — Mayor of Simpleton
the mess the West started — discoii
Yes, unfortunately there actually is: like not to bomb ISIS in the first place. Simple and as logical as that.Is there an acceptable social strategy for France to become less of a target? — Bitter Crank
MSF is disgusted by the recent statements coming from some Afghanistan government authorities justifying the attack on its hospital in Kunduz. These statements imply that Afghan and U.S. forces working together decided to raze to the ground a fully functioning hospital – with more than 180 staff and patients inside – because they claim that members of the Taliban were present. This amounts to an admission of a war crime. — Christopher Stokes, General Director of MSF
Whatever we think of the Arab world, we still need to look at ourselves. — Baden
the US bombed a hospital in Kunduz in Afghanistan and mowed down doctors and patients as they tried to escape the burning building. — Baden
Hollande's comments about being "merciless" and Sarkozy's call for "total war", the results of which will inevitably involve more deaths of innocents on both sides, suggest it will be a long time before we learn that lesson. — Baden
The more we kill, the more we create. That's the lesson of the Iraq war. — Baden
What we need in Iraq is a sophisticated and intelligent response to the threat ISIS pose — Baden
Like? — Thorongil
And there is more nuance to simply advocating "bombing them." You can't merely assert that this is all we have been doing in Afghanistan and that the "bombing" solution therefore hasn't worked. I can quite easily make the case that we need to "bomb them" better rather than not at all. There were really stupid military mistakes made in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The management of both wars was truly inep — Thorongil
I'd say I disagree with everything you wrote in this post. I do not wish to expand, I'll just say that the problem, in my view, is mainly geopolitical, its religious aspect is mostly a symptom. And I'm saying that while I have no problem to admit that the jihadists are part of Islam - or as I have said before, I do not even know what real Islam means. — Πετροκότσυφας
I respectfully disagree. The golden time of intervention of such a hostage taking is immediate and with force. I think of what would happen at a concert venue here in the USA, even where firearms are forbidden, those who are security at the venue would be armed and able to respond. In that massive of a crisis, the first to react would be the ones with the best window of opportunity to neutralize the threat. It is a of a lot hell faster than assembling a task force to figure out a way in. Grant you, the USA does the same in assembling task forces where hostages are involved but venues are required to provide security equal to the implied threat.
I will not deny that what you say is a risk but not enough to discourage a citizen to take personal responsibility for their safety and those around them. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I don't know and neither do you. The difference between us seems to be that I am suggesting we wait until we do know. — Baden
It seems to me that you are advocating we repeat the same mistake. — Baden
Being logical doesn't mean something is correct or justified.It may be simple, but it's certainly not logical. — Thorongil
Some thoughts here:And as a matter of fact, I do know how we defeat ISIS: we put together an international military coalition and with the help of the Kurds, Iraqis, and the remnants of the secular Syrian rebels, invade the Islamic State and destroy it, along with Assad, who should then be tried for genocide and the use of chemical weapons. — Thorongil
It's not being a callous defeatist to demand an intelligent strategy in the Middle East for a change. — Baden
by the likes of you — Baden
I marched against the Iraq war. — Baden
I don't consider myself responsible for the murder and mayhem that has occurred since. — Baden
Were you out marching against the war in Iraq or were you one of those who supported it? — Baden
I doubt you marched against the war. In all probability, you marched against the handling of the post-war occupation. — Thorongil
But now in retrospect, I do support, or would have supported, the war itself — Thorongil
- Who are you talking about when you refer to "we"? The US? The US+France+UK? NATO?
- What international coalition are you talking about? — ssu
- Isn't the West actually trying to do that, actually? — ssu
- Who are the "Secular Syrian rebels"? — ssu
- You totally forget Russia here. If you start attacking Assad, you likely start attacking Russians too. — ssu
I. Marched. Against. The. War. Before it started. In London. Can I make it any clearer? — Baden
You would have supported it and yet you have audacity to call me callous and uncaring — Baden
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