??

You mean it shows the laws of nature and how we let our insecurities lead our thinking.

We all want to be close to power, even if it is power used for evil.

Note how many idolize a genocidal and infanticidal prick of a god. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

It seems to me (hoping to be wrong) that everything has a price. The courts of law are fully aware of how money can easily break even the most principled man/woman.

So I won't be surprised if one day a Jeff Bezos or a Donald Trump buys gravity or quantum physics. They just need to get the price right. :roll:

They just need to get the price right. — TheMadFool

They need to be as big of liars and hypocrites as the religious. Trump is already there.

Regards
DL

I can't see where the confusion came from, haha. Still sounds like a sarcastic atheist to me. — ZhouBoTong

Perhaps you I.Q. just needs a boost. Let me help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL

Trump — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Trump is not unlike the strict Master controller, and many republicans are fundamentalists.

So I won't be surprised if one day a Jeff Bezos or a Donald Trump buys gravity or quantum physics. They just need to get the price right. — TheMadFool

Trump wanted to buy Greenland for its resources, much like Alaska was bought, but… a new joke forms… Trump, claiming no global warming, still wanted to corner the market on ice, much as the late 18th capitalists monopolized railroads, steel, and oil, but when Trump went to see Greenland, it was all green and had no more ice!

I can't see where the confusion came from, haha. — ZhouBoTong

I'll lend you my glasses if you want. :cool: Make it easier to see.

Still sounds like a sarcastic atheist to me. — ZhouBoTong

Or is it possibly atheistic sarcasm?

Trump is not unlike the strict Master controller, and many republicans are fundamentalists. — PoeticUniverse

I hear you.

Trump is a saint as compared to the god those right wingers follow.

The Christian god is a fascist and so is Trump.

Regards
DL

Faith without facts is for fools. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Isn't faith often - or always, by definition? - without facts? :chin:

Faith without facts is for fools.
— Gnostic Christian Bishop

Isn't faith often - or always, by definition? - without facts? :chin: — Pattern-chaser

Faith only, without fact, is for ungrounded preachers just saying … like I heard once, "If you don't believe what we do, then I'm afraid to tell you what will happen to you."

More Bible Study Class—as begun in another, similar thread:

I did read the Bible, as I was Catholic, until 5th grade, and I am referring to some of my 4th grade notes here:

God, not really being everywhere, moves about from place to place, walks around in the Garden of Eden, comes down from Heaven to see the Tower of Babel, the city of Sodom, and so on. So, God is neither everywhere nor knows everything, since He must come over to investigate things. As in… God asks Adam where he had hidden himself and asks Cain where his brother is.

Nor is God invisible, as He can be ‘seen’ above, and has eyes, ears, hand, are, fingers, and such; however, some who see Him are ended by “No one can see Me and live”. Moses was OK since he only saw the back of God. Abraham, Jacob, Isaiah, Jeremiah and others also saw God and somehow survived. Actually, no where in the Bible does it say that God knows everything.

I learned all this at St. Bernadine Catholic Grammar School, Forest Park, Illinois, which is next to the Atomic Fireball Factory that burned down once… but that’s another story.

After my conversion to normalcy in 5th grade, but before falling in love with my nun in 6th grade, another story, I looked even deeper into the beauty and the strangeness of the Bible, since I was bored in school, and noted that:

Many Bible stories were recorded in writing for the first time—they were oral before—long after the historical events described, thus creating a further history altered by hindsight, shaped by the intervening events. For example, the destruction of Solomon’s temple is foretold in the books of prophecy written long after the event, foretelling what had already happened… Same for the New Testament, a few hundred years or so afterward…

I also found some notes from Molly McGuire, whom I often spent time under a tree with, but that is another story… By the way, we raided the dumpsters of the Fireball Factory and filled empty desks with fireballs…

Unfortunately, my 6th grade nun, Sister Theophelia, ran off with our priest, Father Kramer. I didn’t even know that little old me might have had a chance with her… I was afraid to ask to walk her home and all that, although she lived but twenty feet away, in the convent.

In 7th grade, they separated the girls from the boys, and so we all just got all the hotter for each other, then meeting after school and… but that’s another story—and also maybe no one wants to hear about it.

The original text of what was to become one of the Bibles that we might own today was actually translated numerous times, with each new generation imposing its own political and religious agenda on it. I had a Greek Septuagint version once. — 6th grade notes

So, my notes go on to say that Exodus looked somewhat suspicious: 600,000 men, along with women, livestock, and children, wandering around for forty years in an arid wasteland, just because Moses, being a man, wouldn’t ask for directions. Also, there was no archaeological trace, so probably is was just a small thing that got way exaggerated. As for a conquest of Canaan, full of original Israelite conquerors, it was really like “We have met the Canaanites and they are us”. As for David writing so many psalms, he didn’t really, for the Hebrew word for ‘of’ really meant ‘for’, as in for David.

For homework, read the great poem of the Song of Solomon with your girlfriend or boyfriend and write up the results.

Please don’t be late for class tomorrow.

Why would the god be a coward? Maybe he hates us. I mean, that seems more plausible to me. The god doesn't want anything to do with us. Not cowardice, but contempt.

The god doesn't want anything to do with us. Not cowardice, but contempt. — Bartricks

What a mean Guy; With 'friends' like Him, we hardly need the Devil.

The god doesn't want anything to do with us. Not cowardice, but contempt. — Bartricks

...or maybe She's just busy looking after the rest of the Universe? It's a big place...?

That's certainly another possibility. Although if the god is half-way decent, you'd think she'd look out for us - unless, that is, we have done something to deserve her contempt.

unless, that is, we have done something to deserve her contempt. — Bartricks

Well, contempt, yes, if 'God' didn't really design our human nature, but that instead each one of us personally defined our human nature from scratch.

The god doesn't want anything to do with us. Not cowardice, but contempt.
— Bartricks

...or maybe She's just busy looking after the rest of the Universe? It's a big place...? — Pattern-chaser

And then there is the age old, maybe what we think we can deduce is not correct. That our limited intelligence/knowledge/perspective can make us judge actions/facets in ways that are fallible. Like children can judge adult policies incorrect given their, in relation, limited knowledge. And animals can certain get frustrated with their owners choices. The god moves in mysterious ways thingie.

I do think this argument/position has been used horrifically. On the other hand, it is also hard to rule out. So if some bunch of humans want to foist it on me, I am resistant. But I also balk when skeptics say they know it is not the case. They know they can judge and draw correct conclusions. Well, I doubt that too.

Does non-disclosure presuppose cowardice?

each one of us personally defined our human nature from scratch — PoeticUniverse

For real? [As Americans say.] We each defined ourselves? That would be the best bootstrapping trick I've ever seen or heard of. If it was correct. :chin:

That would be the best bootstrapping trick I've ever seen or heard of. — Pattern-chaser

Such are the ridiculous lengths believers go to in order to let 'God' shirk responsibility for human nature being such as it is.

Glad you could make it to Bible Study Class today.

Evolution via natural selection endowed human mammals with the notion of looking for intent in nature, and that helped us out a lot with our real environment. That it became somewhat innate is The Problem, as in what people still make up about the Intent.

It’s still that once one uses a specific word, one has to declare the word in all its specifics. I know we all have a vague idea of what ‘God’ means, but ask ten people ten questions about God, and one will find that there are ten ideas about god out there, not one. If one uses a word, one must fully explain that word, and in light of the Theory of Everything, one must also do that on scientifically satisfying grounds.

Many have said semantically impossible things in which the words sound good, but make no sense, like, say, “God is the Universe”, but, like a rose, it’s still the universe by any other name. Many even said what God is not, such as being undefinable, but that only supported the claim that to say that this notion of “God” says nothing, for it indeed defines nothing.

Everyone thinks that God knows everything, can do anything, and is everywhere, but really, actually, for sure and with no doubt, poor old God was just an advanced alien bumbling along through some carbon-based experiments as a student of biology… For real?

In retrospect we can see that any higher composite Mind had to have been upwards of our evolution, comparatively speaking, not something tiny, simple, and non-compositely fundamental way back when. He’s not really God, but we’ll still call Him that since He created us in a lab experiment. Not likely.

Glad you could make it to Bible Study Class today. — PoeticUniverse

The Bible might be your holy book, but it isn't mine. :up: :smile:

Everyone thinks that God knows everything, can do anything, and is everywhere — PoeticUniverse

No, they don't.

The Bible might be your holy book, but it isn't mine. :up: :smile: — Pattern-chaser

You can't get out of Bible Study that easily. I see from here that you also have 'The Egyptian Book of the Dead on you bookshelf.

First, 'God' threw out some debris that became our universe, since He really couldn’t make any original stuff instantly, and being limited to that, had to wait for 13.75 billions years for protohomo sapiens to appear, then tampered with our DNA to put the final perfect touches upon our human nature, making “Adam and Eve” in a Garden.

Well, old God, not really knowing didly-squat, was mighty darn surprised when his human nature design immediately flubbed when they ate an apple forbidden to them. “Jeeese”, thought God, “you tell them not to touch something and that’s the first thing they do.” So He threw them out of the Garden to see if that would help. It didn’t, and God was surprised, but we all were mostly fruitful and so multiplied into the millions. He recalled, too, that his Angel creations had failed.

God waited around, thinking that surely some more evolution of His new DNA masterpiece would do the trick. It didn’t, surprise, surprise, so God found the best man on earth, Noah, and his family, saved him and killed all the rest of humankind. Things would surely improve now, for this was like breeding cats, dogs, or horses. Nothing improved whatsoever, and even more folly and wars were going on, so the much more surprised God sent Moses down with the Ten Commandments. This would help change the masses.

Well, things did change; they got worse, and so God, shocked at this turn of events, sent many plagues of locusts to scare them into shaping up. This did not much work and God was utterly astounded, so God sent some prophets, but nothing much changed. “Darn,” said God. Or "damn!"

God then sent Jesus to preach goodness, but they crucified him. Wars, stealing, murdering, plundering, and name calling continued unabated, the different religions even warring against each other. This was all really getting out of hand.

God sent even more prophets, such as “Bab”. No effect. Shock and surprise. Earth’s problems got worse; the Nazis almost conquered the world. 11 million died in death camps. God, of course, was limited, apparently, and could do nothing to help. Finally, God, realizing that his experiment was hopeless, turned in His lab report and soon flunked the course.

(This is a true story handed down from some ancient historians who knew everything.)

The phenomenon of reliably consistent creation by causal intelligence lying behind it is philosophically and logically impossible without more causal intelligence lying behind it, etc., that is, a system of intelligent mind is a system, having parts beneath that are more fundamental than the resultant system. Where does it end (begin)? It cannot be with mind, for mind is composite. The regress must end at the simplest and the tiniest, where the buck stops. QED

I see from here that you also have 'The Egyptian Book of the Dead on you bookshelf. — PoeticUniverse

The Egyptian Book of the Dead is a guide to dying well, nothing more. :roll:

The phenomenon of reliably consistent creation by causal intelligence lying behind it is philosophically and logically impossible without more causal intelligence lying behind it, etc. — PoeticUniverse

<Assertion alert>

Do you have evidence? Or supporting ideas, even? :chin:

Do you have evidence? Or supporting ideas, even? :chin: — Pattern-chaser

It wasn't stated clearly, but it is shooting down that life had to come from a larger life, and so forth… since that makes a regress.

Thanks for doing your homework.


The Bible Study Class continues:

Ex Nihilo: The Real Book of Genesis, featuring Nothing

1 First, as ever and always, nothing made the heavens and the Earth, since there was nothing to make it of. Technically, nothing made the teeny-tiny secondary ‘elementals’, as opposite pairs, before their subsequent combinations, which then went on to form higher complexities, even us.

2 The Earth was once without form, and void, as zilch, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of nothing was moving over the face of the waters. Hey, what waters? Water came later. No waters.

3 And not a thing said, “Let there be light”, and there were photons, and a big electric bill, too. And then as well came forth electrons, quarks, and their anti-particles of opposite matter and charge, ever still summing to the sum-thing zero-balance of nothing. OK, now we’re cooking.

4 And nullity saw that the light was good; and nil separated all the more the light from the darkness in equipoise of positive and negative.

5 Zero called the light day, and the darkness it called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one fine day, and even an afternoon. It was Oneday. Yes, even out in space.

6 And void said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” The “waters” must have been mirages, for there weren’t no waters before all, nohow, no way.

7 And naught made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. Water, water not everywhere, nor any drops to drink!

8 And zip called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day, plus a yesterday and a tomorrow to come. It was Twosday.

9 And nada said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. Finally, water was in its proper place, as really having become of H2O.

10 Diddly-squat called the dry land earth, and the waters that were gathered together it called seas. And nobody saw that it was good.

11 And not anything said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth, plus very many weeds.” And it was so.

12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. Duh, that was expected. And trifle saw that it was good. Um, wait, there was evolution.

13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. OK already; we get the day to day thing. It was Wedding-day.

14 And no big deal said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years and weeks and months and seasons and years and millennia and eternity.”

15 “And let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. Actually, protons made the stars.

16 And neither here nor there made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. This was well before Rockefeller invented kerosene Thomas Edison invented the light bulb.

17 And nonentity set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth, meaning that they really slowly formed—

18 To rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And no-name saw that it was good. Alright, let’s get on with it already.

19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Cripes! Sure Happy It’s Thursday, or Thirstday.

20 And God Damnit Nothing said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, even mosquitoes, I guess, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens.” So immutable! Evolution, remember?

21 So nonperson created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And Gosh saw that it was good.

22 And nothing blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the Earth.”

23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Thank God It’s Friday, or Fryday.

24 And positive/negative said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” Dinosaurs were not known of. And it was so. What a zoo.

25 And lack of anything made the beasts of the Earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind. And zippo saw that it was really getting darned good, although it was getting really crowded.

26 Then yin/yang said, to his wife? “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; (bad move) and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” Hmmm… the poor subservient animals and the environment.

27 So, love (zero in tennis) created man in his own image, in the image of empty he created him; male and female, and gays and lesbians he created them. Is that “own image” why we are so flawed?

28 And vacant blessed them, while unoccupied said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; (so much for the environment again) and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” Maybe humans should use birth control and mostly multiply with calculators?

29 And bare said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.”

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. Just like that?

31 And clear saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very damned good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day. Sitting day, or Satday.

Isn't faith often - or always, by definition? - without facts? — Pattern-chaser

The way the term is used today, yes.

Regards
DL

Why would the god be a coward? Maybe he hates us. I mean, that seems more plausible to me. The god doesn't want anything to do with us. Not cowardice, but contempt. — Bartricks

Quite possibly. All I can tell for sure is that he is a deadbeat dad who will not visit us, the children of god.

Regards
DL

What a mean Guy; With 'friends' like Him, we hardly need the Devil. — PoeticUniverse

I don't know if I appreciate this guy preaching for Gnostic Christianity. Rather gothic.

He does not speak too badly though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

Regards
DL

we have done something to deserve her contempt. — Bartricks

What do scriptures say of god and man forgiving?

7 x 70 times I think are the numbers.

God may not be able to count.

Regards
DL

Does non-disclosure presuppose cowardice? — The Owl

Yes.
It shows lack of confidence in what is being held back.

Regards
DL

Why are you mentioning the bible? You think if the bible says something that's good evidence it is true? Sheesh.

Why are you mentioning the bible? You think if the bible says something that's good evidence it is true? Sheesh. — Bartricks

No. The bible is a book of ancient wisdom and myth created to enhance discussions and debates.

That worked well until Christianity began to read their myths literally.

Here is some history for you.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL