...another ironic thing about the act of introspection is, once one decides to embark on the self-discovery process, something completely novel can be uncovered. And that sort of begs the question(s) of whether that new knowledge always existed; it just required you to uncover it. And then in turn that could lead to other questions about, say, the Will and its function in our consciousness. — 3017amen
Cool. Then I think our main disagreement is just in our characterization of introspection. I don't really think of it as a method for gaining knowledge because knowledge is a social phenomena -- it's something we produce together. Whereas introspection is looking in at the self, so it necessarily could not be knowledge (if my characterization of knowledge is held to, at least -- obviously there's other ways of parsing knowledge). — Moliere
Gonna have to object to that; I can safely say I’ve never seen myself think. I can imagine myself sitting on a rock, appearing to ponder this or that, but nothing concerning the this or that can arise from it, that isn’t actually me doing it. — Mww
Truth be told, I don’t know how to respond to the idea that observation has something to do with that which is not of the senses, — Mww
Which seems to say you think we can reason from observation independent of a mode of observation. Which is a perfect example of why I insist (to myself, to be sure) on assigning observation to the empirical domain alone. — Mww
maybe it’s just me exercising overly-critical thinking. I do that a lot, I must say. — Mww
Self-knowledge is real knowledge, though it is knowledge that only the subject person can possess in detail, and introspection is the essential process of gaining it. — Bitter Crank
A question: How much of our self-knowledge can a benign interrogator (not the water-boarding type) gain through long-term discussion (such as that with a psychoanalyst)? Can one unpack somebody else's mind, with their cooperation? (Not now. if there is no willingness to share.). — Bitter Crank
There is a paradox in "the unexamined life is not worth living" and that is that most of us can not do mature self-examination until much of our life has been lived. — Bitter Crank
The objections are strictly from a epistemological philosophy, not a psychological character evaluation. — Mww
I did say earlier I don't think saying introspection in the category knowledge makes sense. Can introspection as a process lead to knowledge? that makes sense to me. Is using introspection as a source of information epistemologically justified? that makes sense to me. Introspection is a process.And if this be the case, then, regarding the OP, introspection is not a valid type of knowledge, — Mww
Empirical knowledge, yes. Observation is another good way of gaining empirical knowledge. Both introspection (self-report) and observation have been used by Psychologists as a way of gaining empirical knowledge of the human mind.In a previous post, @TheMadFool pointed out that, as you say, introspection is not a type of knowledge. I agreed that it made more sense to say it is a good way of gaining knowledge. — T Clark
I agree.I do use reason, but people here don't usually doubt the value of it, while it seems to me that introspection is often distrusted. — T Clark
Mental events are sources of information (the result of intrinsic mental communication, or communication within a mind), hence; a type of organism function. So, I think assigning a property of credibility (believable or trustworthy condition) to a mental event is a category error.Sources of information have credibility. You believe some more than others. — T Clark
This thread is a very good example of me trying to communicate my mental life to others. — T Clark
Apparently you have different experiences. Why is that a problem? — T Clark
I assume you have been aware of your own mental life. I don't see how that is different from being aware of the dog sitting on my lawn. They both have come to your attention by way of mental processes. — T Clark
It seems your experience is different than mine. — T Clark
Can introspection as a process lead to knowledge? that makes sense to me. — Coben
Is using introspection as a source of information epistemologically justified? — Coben
There are ways in which the distinction could be considered to be artificial or at least not cut and dried, but I think it is more or less useful nonetheless. — Janus
the contents of your mind come to your attention by reason alone — Mww
Yes that would be the implication,which I had a moment of concern over. Since I am reifying knowledge. What if it is, in fact, knowledging, rather than a 'thing' or product? But I think it's more useful to reify it, even if, at some level, it is also another process. And the reason is because we can, more or less, copy the knowledge, or pass it on to others, since we tend to think of knowledge as shared. And even with myself it seems more nouny.Which supports the position that introspection is not knowledge, just as rationality is not knowledge. If introspection or rationality is a process, but knowledge is the ends of either process, or the justification for either process, then knowledge cannot be either process itself. — Mww
Sure.Ok. I would say introspection as a process leads to understanding of some knowledge we already have. — Mww
I am not sure that "reason" is the right word here. — Bitter Crank
The contents of your mind include the capacity to look at and reflect on the contents of your mind. — Bitter Crank
If something worked for you or was true for you then it's probably going to work for others or be true for others too. — Judaka
Since I am reifying knowledge. — Coben
Ironically enough, my best friend who is an engineer , we have yearly mantra's and one of them was Awareness. We learned so much from the concept of awareness that we extended it another year. We would get together and 'pontificate ' our experiences from both our personal and professional activities. It was very revelatory. We made a joke and asked each other from time to time, any 'awareness ' today ? — 3017amen
Anyway my point there is, it's important to have awareness and practice awareness. And my intuition tells me to draw from, in this case, classical philosophy, post modern Philosophy, Psychology, Religion, science, etc. etc. This is the twenty-first century, we need to allow ourselves to use the appropriate tools that are now and have been available. — 3017amen
Which is, of course, what we are all trying to do. Can we do it? — Bitter Crank
One of the great limitation in sharing our minds, mental life, inner being... with others is the enormous volume of content that amounts to even brief experiences. For a good deal of experience we have no words. There are odors, for instance that we find attractive, disgusting, appetizing, and so forth which we would be very hard-pressed to describe beyond saying "Mint smells like mint". How does one describe the odor of a ripe pear? Or a spoiled tomato? Or a quite dead squirrel? Or rain on a warm concrete road? Or the sensation of swallowing a spoonful of haddock chowder? The feel of a very dry, cold wind? A twitching muscle? The sensation of suddenly remembering something important you forgot? — Bitter Crank
When I see ground cherries at the farmers market (never see them anywhere else) I remember seeing ground cherries growing in our neighbor's garden; that memory is at least 60+ years old. — Bitter Crank
Some of our actions are just too embarrassing to talk about, and I wasn't even thinking about sexual misadventures. — Bitter Crank
So, to make a long story short, we may over-estimate just how much of our selves we can or will actually reveal. — Bitter Crank
The dog on your lawn comes to your attention by sensibility; the contents of your mind come to your attention by reason alone, no matter that they were put there beforehand by sensibility, or by sheer imagination. — Mww
If I don’t know how I know what I know, — Mww
I have no right to suppose anything of the sort, within the context of internal musings. Subjectivity is private, by definition, hence entirely inaccessible to any other subjectivity. Therefore, it is absolutely impossible to claim manifestations of subjectivity in others, is grounded in, or predicated on, my own, to whit, I have witnessed a guy accidentally hit himself with a hammer, in the course of events under which a hammer would normally be used, and continue on as if it never happened. — Mww
Reason, too. Reason the verb is the reification of the abstract thing we do; reason the noun is the reification of the abstract thing describing how it is being done.
Reification is dangerous, nonetheless. Sometimes necessary for communication of ideas, sometimes self-contradictory. But we all do it, sooner or later, in other than the more mundane circumstances. — Mww
Just try introspecting about something the knowledge of which is impossible. Can’t be done. — Mww
Try introspecting about something the knowledge of which is possible, but you have no experience with it. That can be done, but it is no different than imagining, and imagining has no certain ground anywhere, — Mww
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