. What is amazing to me is that so much of American political discourse nowadays seems to be about people's hating one another. I think it is a willed thing, making serious political discussion impossible by fixing people into positions that suit their masters. — iolo
Some of these people are passive-aggressive. It is also perfectly normal to hate that which expresses hatred at you, especially if it is not grounded fairly in what you have done, or when violence or extreme disrespect is aimed at you. Or even things like social backstabbing, ongoing disrespect - often bosses are hated, in part because there is no good way for the person disrespected to easily extricate themselves from the dynamic - abuse of power, or when people mistreat people we love. — Coben
Where do you get the statistic that most people who genuinely feel hatred at undergoing intense CBT? And what is intense CBT as opposed to the usual CBT? Can you link us to any of that?Yeah. Which is why I brought up most people that genuinely feel hatred are undergoing intense CBT (if not, likely require it) therapy, and left untreated.. (violently harms themselves), if not anyone else - and "embracing" that is just moronic when there are ways to mitigate it. — Swan
Or you could say they hate a bunch of thingsSo yes, a great deal of people find all kinds of things frustrating and repulsive; doesn't explain much about "hatred" which I view as a prolonged (state) driven by a series of self-defeating/undressed emotions, — Swan
So, you define it a way that makes you think it is not so common, but disliking someone or something very much is very common. And I actually think there are much stronger feeling of rage and anger that we tend to suppress.to dislike someone or something very much:
"back-stabbing" and so forth - intent to cause harm or restrict someone else harmfully, one way or another - to someone, or another. — Swan
I don't think I said all or most people are bubbling over with rage, but most people do experience hatred. It's not an abnormal feeling. I mean look at the poltical divisions in the country and tell me that hatred is not common. It doesn't mean it is all the time. People smile at the their kids, help strangers who felll, down but mention Trump or Hilary and their supporters and you find hate fast. Bosses who mistreat their workers, and that is not uncommon. Ask waiters and bartenders if they ever feel hate at their customers, or anyone is a service postion: hotels, for example. Anywhere where one just has to eat being treated with disrespect.So, I don't think OP is some evil guy filled with "hatred" or whatever, think he's just being hard on himself. And yeah, there are plenty of people not walking about "filled and bubbling over with hatred" and manage themselves and emotions just fine. Just seems hyperbolic. — Swan
Where do you get the statistic that most people who genuinely feel hatred at undergoing intense CBT? And what is intense CBT as opposed to the usual CBT? — Coben
Or you could say they hate a bunch of things — Coben
So, you define it a way that makes you think it is not so common, but disliking someone or something very much is very common. And I actually think there are much stronger feeling of rage and anger that we tend to suppress. — Coben
I meant socially backstabbing. The way hatred comes out via gossip, betrayal, office political maneuvers. The types of feelings that come up in close relationships where teenager in relation to their parents or spouses in relation to each other feeling intense rage. — Coben
I don't think I said all or most people are bubbling over with rage, but most people do experience hatred. It's not an abnormal feeling. — Coben
'genuinely feel hatred' is a phrase which focuses on the type of feeling. Now to meet your criteria it has to be for such prolonged periods of feeling rage that the person's body suffers from stress related deterioration. And you contrast this with 'fleeting' moments of feeling that one can't even distinguish from disgust.Most people that genuinely feel hatred are behind bars for crimes of passion, performing ethnic cleanses or going through intense CBT
I never said anything about attaching it to one's personality and identifying with it. I wrote about experiencing the emotion.But when we address "hatred" is not merely just an emotion, in philosophical, sociopolitical, etc., contexts, I view it as more than just a "reaction" but in order to meaningfully classify someone as "harboring all this hatred" attaching it to their identity as a person, there must be a pattern of intent to cause harm and/or restrict something - or someone, habits and practices, along with a series of self-defeatist behaviors, actions, either addressed - or unaddressed, etc. — Swan
American politics is an absolute shit show. It hasn't gotten better in the past few years, either. Politics is everything emotion; and for a majority of people it is filled with nothing but emotion and ideological zombies. — Swan
rather than the ordinary one that we're going by. — S
But here's a start...she could have responded by quoting me where it showed I misunderstood her, and explained why this showed I misunderstood her. Then I have something to work with, and she is also testing to see if her interpretation is correct. There is a significant difference between we disagree and you aren't understanding what I am saying. I did quote her in my posts. I also tried to point out how her definition of hatred had shifted over time.if you don't understand what you don't understand, then it's hard to make you understand the very thing your arguing opponent wants you to understand.
But here's a start...she could have responded by quoting me where it showed I misunderstood her, and explained why this showed I misunderstood her. Then I have something to work with, and she is also testing to see if her interpretation is correct. There is a significant difference between we disagree and you aren't understanding what I am saying. I did quote her in my posts. I also tried to point out how her definition of hatred had shifted over time. — Coben
There is a significant difference between we disagree and you aren't understanding what I am saying. — Coben
trying to explain to him what you think he does not understand? — god must be atheist
I would say hatred has a cognitive aspect also, so this is a good point. Rage can come cathartically, hate for me entails at least a temoporary categotization. A though that goes along with the emotion. I may have focused too much on the emotion and not this part and this could have been part of us talking past each other.Rather than the definition "shifting" I expel it ONLY when it has exhausted it's usefulness (which yours.. I do not find adequate), in philosophical, social-political, in other contexts outside of just "just an emotion" (i.e. Psych) - or fixating on "just language" ("I hate people"), which I find simply distracting and trivial. — Swan
I found this a little tricky to understand. If I missed it my apologies, but could you go into the kinds of reactions that I brought up a couple of times, where people feel hatred for employers or other people with power, where they cannot really confront the person and there is something abusive or chronically disrespectful on the employers part (or the employee thinks so). I think similar dynamics can occur related to issues of sexism, homophobia, racism, where for me it makes sense to say that these patterns elicit hate. In a sense hate in response to hate or prolonged disrespect. I would also say that longer term relationships, especially where there is an eventual split, say in a divorce can have significant periods, and repeated moods of hate. I think this is what the people say. In my own experiences - around friend's parents, relationships I have been around, and once for me - this is not just anger or rage or disgust coming in quickly and leaving.To here is where I draw a distinction between "hate" (some form of stress relief) and "hatred" (in practice), the latter that does not necessarily have to entail "rage" - or prolonged periods of "rage" but only necessarily corresponding behaviors, and the former not making any meaningful distinctions between (especially culturally) between other stress relief words and phrases, or reactions such as 'disgust', distrust, repulsion, etc. To where I personally don't find it interesting anymore. — Swan
I wouldn't use misogynist for a person who blurts out that they hate women. I agree it would have to be part of a long term pattern. At least, I think I am agreeing with what you wrote. I am not talking about short moments of catharsis. And in fact I am glad that misogyny came up, because I do think it is fairly widespread in society, but would not consider using it for what you are saying above does not count as true misogeny. IOW I see this as rather widespread and that many of the patterns brought to light in the me too movement are signs of a hatred of women and also, given that women have often had to experience this in unequal power situations, a cause for hatred in response.A similar phenomena has happened for example, with the word "misogynist" - which, by the book, is just "a hatred of women" but the definition begins to become inadequate when we venture into the men that practice misogyny - rather than just say, "wow I hate women" (e.g. making misogynistic statements) after a trivial break-up as a form of a psychological catharsis (rather than a guy that genuinely just "hates" women) or people labeling all others that express controversial opinions of women misogynists, etc., but examining further, we can discern and see this is not the case, and such words have lost it's significance and must be re-defined to where they are useful once again, because obviously, the definition does not adequately explain anything - nor give a sufficient reflection of what is being said. — Swan
I don't think you did what I asked for above. I think we might be able to reach each other. But here you are saying I quoted you, but then responded in a way that showed I hadn't read what you wrote. What I was asking for in my previous post was an example of this kind of thing. Maybe I missed it in your latest post. But it seemed like you repeated your position again, in a new way.If you read the text (which is also Cohen's problem), you could figure that out on your own. The reason I did not want to respond in the first place, because even then there was no point, as he isn't even reading - let alone understanding, because he quoted something, and responded in a fashion to where the quoted passage, DOESN'T EVEN SAY THAT. (Talking at me).
But since you're the one trying to add complexity to where there isn't any, it's quite evident you're projecting on my answers. — Swan
it's likely going to be my last response here — Swan
I am sorry, but what you said ("she is feisty") sounds dismissive of Swan's worth. She may be passionate about her ideas, but so am I, and you, and most everyone here. Her gender ought not to influence our thinking, and her picture, absolutely not. (Actually, both do, and I am the first to admit. But we must behave as if they did not. Out of respect.) — god must be atheist
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