My argument is that social influences are less than genetic factors — Hallucinogen
The information I've linked to outright refutes this — Hallucinogen
Wouldn't sex at birth be a genetic influence? — Hallucinogen
I view outcome as a function of ability, with very little difference in opportunity between people. — Hallucinogen
I have difficulty seeing how attaining wealth could change one's genes. Or that necomjng wealthy would raise one's IQ, especially given pre-existing evidence that variation in IQ is ~75% due to genetic variation. — Hallucinogen
It demonstrates a correlation between IQ and future wealth. — Isaac
I am referring Gregory Clark's research. — Hallucinogen
Racism is a type of prejudice - not something separate.My working formula:
Prejudice (e.g. "racial"-color stereotypes/biases) +
Power (i.e. majority/over-Class) =
Racism (i.e. modes/strategies of discrimination against "racial" minority/under-Class) — 180 Proof
And I was saying that of course it does, and to pretend that it doesn't is fairly shitty. It shouldn't according to some fantasy of social relations, but it does. So I acknowledge the fact, and if you would have the honesty to do the same, then we could begin to talk about whether there is anything to be done about it. When I see @180 Proof walking down the street, I'm watching to see if he pulls out a weapon. And he knows my white fear, and he's watching me the same way. Until maybe we say hi, and then since we are both liberal to a degree, he might let me move in next door or marry his daughter.
Adoption studies have shown over and over again that environment plays a huge role in determining IQ. It's a mixture of nature and nurture. — Artemis
In my mind, the only meaningful difference between any two random people on Earth is cultural. i.e language, values, beliefs, etc. — La Cuentista
and tests a pretty narrow range of abilities. — Artemis
Adoption studies have shown over and over again that environment plays a huge role in determining IQ. — Artemis
It's a mixture of nature and nurture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4403216/ — Artemis
Exactly. — Isaac
No, not exactly. https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2014105 — Hallucinogen
Sometimes it seems that people are intentionally not even trying to understand what the other one is saying and only trying to put the other one in the worst light possible. Just take the message the worst way possible. And oh boy, do people love their strawmen.This “fantasy” was the goal of the best part of the civil rights era, and the message was used to end apartheid and Jim Crow, back when people were openly persecuted for their skin color. This “fantasy” was espoused by MLK and Mandela, both of whom were thrown in jail while speaking it. Rather than promote their “fantasy” you’re reiterating the same color consciousness as their jailers, and illustrate it by proving your suspicion of another man because of his skin color. — NOS4A2
Are you reading these studies? This latest put heritability of intelligence by 12 yrs at 0.46, less than half. Ie — Isaac
At 12 years. In adulthood it is about 80% — Hallucinogen
Completely wrong. It predicts lifespan, lifetime earnings, hesd circumference, success in many school subjects, the sizes of numerous brain gyri and the size and speed of your brain cells. — Hallucinogen
By huge, do you mean 20%? — Hallucinogen
did you have to disregard before cherrypicking this one? — Hallucinogen
that environment plays a huge role in determining IQ. It's a mixture of nature and nurture. — Artemis
No, not exactly. — Hallucinogen
Is it so now that people aren't judged at all by their skin? It's something really meaningless now? So is now everything really OK? Especially in a country where the white people call the poor people of their own race "White trash", just to give one example? So no xenophobia and judgement of others whatsoever worth talking about?
Well, people are perhaps in love with their own narrative, so happy in their own echo chamber in the discourse and simply aren't willing to listen.As you said, this another common strawman. Of course people are judged by the color of heir skin. That’s no question. Color blindness is merely that we shouldn’t judge people by the color of their skin. It’s not to deny racism exists, it’s to refuse to engage in racism, to refuse racialize others, and to refuse to utilize these outmoded categories. — NOS4A2
Well, people are perhaps in love with their own narrative, so happy in their own echo chamber in the discourse and simply aren't willing to listen.
And people simply aren't anymore ready to engage other one's thoughts on the level of "I agree with you on x, however I disagree with y". Seems like you are giving your little finger to the Devil if you acknowledge that the people you disagree with have also a point.
HAHAHA!
Well, if you don't find ANYTHING you would agree on with the people for example here on PF you mostly disagree with and argue with, then the above description fits you.
Really?
Just re-read the first page on this thread and it's totally obvious that people are talking about separate issues and without bothering to think about what others are talking about.
As you said above "Of course people are judged by the color of heir skin. That’s no question." Then read just from the first page replies like of Maw and 180Proof, and I'm quite sure people agree on something here… but, of course, that doesn't matter. You are worried about the woke intersectionality rising and the "attack" on colorblindness and the racialization of nearly everything and they just notice hmm…. perhaps hypocrite white denial or see right wing tropes and go on the counterattack. Or something.
I deny the manifestation of genetic differences as having any ground to begin to differentiate people on any meaningful level. At least in terms of human and civil rights issues and basic “all men are created equal” values. (things like artistic, athletic, or intellectual gifts, etc. are not involved in what I mean with genetic manifestations, to be clear. Surface level bodily makeup stuff is what I’m referring to) — La Cuentista
Racism is a type of prejudice - not something separate. — Harry Hindu
That's your response to my post? :lol:That's like saying 'Rape is a type of fucking - not something separate.' :brow: — 180 Proof
That wasn't the issue, but 180 wants to make that the issue to avoid what was said in the rest of the post they quoted.Absolutely, well said. As if the taxonomy of the thing was the most important issue! — Isaac
Wow. Some people are still living in the 1950s.I repeat, you can deny it all you want and I might even agree with you in one sense. but in another sense there really are differences of skin colour, and they really do make a significant difference to one's chances of surviving the KKK lynch-mob. — unenlightened
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