Most atheists consider themselves to be part of some system of physical, biological, psychological, social...etc system of laws which they refer to to make rational decisions. — Isaac
But what laws are there apart from physical necessity? I had the idea that in the atheist’s world the only principles resembling laws were physical laws i.e. laws of motion, thermodynamics, and so on. — Wayfarer
Relativists or Pragmatists — Mark Dennis
I'm not sure I understand how you can have an "ethics" of any sort without some principles you fall back on?
Like, you previously stated something along the lines of judging each situation individually, but on what basis do you make a judgement? — Artemis
My ethics is my set of preferences/judgments about interpersonal behavior (more significant than etiquette)
What do you use to make these judgements? Your opinions and preferences on empirical data? — Mark Dennis
Wouldn't any positive statement imply a negative one? — Artemis
Could imagines scenarios not fall under the category of social, psychological and linguistic etc empirical data? For example when the imagined scenario is written down and becomes a literary work of fiction or when the imagined scenario is explained to the psychologist and the sociologist is looking for trends and patterns in accounts of people’s imaginings? — Mark Dennis
dispositions or intuited feelings about interpersonal behavior. — Terrapin Station
How do you differentiate that from essentially a moral code? — Artemis
Seems to me at least any intuition could be formally stated as a type of premise? — Artemis
Only if you’re looking for one - ie. if you’re motivated by fear.
Any statement of ethical principle is inaccurate, whether it’s positive or negative. — Possibility
and I don't use the terms differently . . . well, not that I even use the phrase "moral code") — Terrapin Station
Sure, it could. — Terrapin Station
Okay, so then you must have some underlying principles you fall back on? — Artemis
No. Because I think that seeing any moral principle as a trump card (so you're falling back on it) always results in ridiculous policies. — Terrapin Station
Seems to me you yourself still fall back on them, even if you're just doing it "intuitively." — Artemis
When I'm talking about your personal moral maxim, it doesn't matter what other people consider these terms to mean. — Artemis
And your example about offense simply implies that sometimes you think offense is a necessary thing. — Artemis
Would you beat up a small child in an alleyway if you knew you could get away with it and suffer absolutely zero social or financial or other external consequences? — Artemis
I intentionally try to intuit how I feel about a particular situation, simply as that particular situation. — Terrapin Station
Your intuition must be based on something, — Artemis
More or less. There is not a clear distinction on my account of prescriptive claims that are moral versus ones that are not moral, but sometimes in writing about it I get the feeling that using the word "moral" in place of just "prescriptive" might confuse some part of the audience, so I'm not certain that for all speakers they are synonymous.
The sense I get from those who might make such a distinction is between other-directed action and self-directed action, though on my account there is no need to make that distinction for the claims to be broadly speaking "moral": I'd say one ought not, for example, literally beat oneself up (like punch oneself in the face) over one's failures, and that "ought" is prescriptive, and therefore on my account the same kind of claim as a claim that one ought not beat up overs over their failures, but I get the sense that others would say that only the latter claim about interpersonal action is "moral" and the first is... something else, I guess? I would make a distinction between self-directed and other-directed action when it comes to procedural justice, saying that someone has the right to beat themselves up but not the right to beat someone else up, but that's only a subset of moral concerns, and in the broader sense I'd say that the first is moral too. — Pfhorrest
Yeah, on my body. How I feel about the situation at hand/what my natural disposition is.
Again, this is ultimately what everyone does. — Terrapin Station
So, if you're just having a particularly bad "body day" you might actually beat up the kid in the alley? — Artemis
Nope. — Artemis
It is, because nothing else is available — Terrapin Station
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