I would argue the system created, followed, and implemented, is inherently divisive. Not the people operating with in it, presidents included.

Anyone who would claim that Trump is not divisive is probably not worth arguing with.

Anyone who would claim that Trump is not divisive is probably not worth arguing with. — praxis

It's apparently even divisive to claim he's not divisive.

Trump HAS NOT been impeached yet. — Hanover

OH YES HE HAS. The articles of impeachment have been passed, by record margins, and he is, and forever will have been, impeached, regardless of what happens in the (corrupt, spineless, supine) Senate.

from that article :

“These kinds of totals aren’t unheard of,” Maguire added. “I do think they’re unheard of on the liberal side. I think that’s what’s so striking about this.”

So before pointing out this dark money, let's remember the republicans have been responsible for 70% of dark money in every election cycle since Citizens United.

OH YES HE HAS. The articles of impeachment have been passed, by record margins, and he is, and forever will have been, impeached, regardless of what happens in the (corrupt, spineless, supine) Senate. — Wayfarer

Not until they've transmitted the articles to the Senate does the impeachment occur. That requires an act of the House, not the Senate.

I am aware of the unprecedented nature of the impeachment proceeding, occurring without a single vote from the other party,

This impeachment was not by record margins. In the Jackson impeachment, the House voted 126-47-17 (abstains) to impeach, which is 66%. Trump's was 230-197, which is 54%.

It's apparently even divisive to claim he's not divisive. — Hanover

No, I just didn’t think LuckilyDifinative’s argument would be amusing. I’m sure that yours would be hysterical though, if you would be so generous as to share it with us.

These kinds of totals aren’t unheard of,” Maguire added. “I do think they’re unheard of on the liberal side. I think that’s what’s so striking about this.”

So before pointing out this dark money, let's remember the republicans have been responsible for 70% of dark money in every election cycle since Citizens United.

Whataboutism.

They believe he’s the second-coming of Hitler, so it’s not a stretch for them to believe he can divide millions of people like Moses does the Red Sea.

For all his faults, his stupidities, his hubris, his bluster, Trump still runs circles around candidates who have been politicians for the better part of a century. Add on top of that the memes and shitposting, he is the anti-politician.

No, I just didn’t think LuckilyDifinative’s argument would be amusing. I’m sure that yours would be hysterical though, if you would be so generous as to share it with us. — praxis

It definitely would be, but I'm not an organ grinder monkey here for your entertainment. I'm a real person with real feelings.

no. Context. If you have a problem with dark money, then that sword cuts both parties.

Suit yourself.

Add on top of that the memes and shitposting, he is the anti-politician. — NOS4A2

He memes and shitposts for political reasons, numbnuts.

Not until they've transmitted the articles to the Senate does the impeachment occur. That requires an act of the House, not the Senate. — Hanover

This is not true. He has been impeached, the Senate trial then decides whether he should be removed from office. But the passing of the articles of impeachment means impeachment.

This is not true. He has been impeached, the Senate trial then decides whether he should be removed from office. But the passing of the articles of impeachment means impeachment. — Wayfarer

The Senate has not been asked to decide anything and there has been no request by the House that Trump be considered for removal from office. Sure, it's a simple act for Pelosi to hand the articles to the Senate, but until she does, the Senate has nothing to consider.

Sure, it's a simple act for Pelosi to hand the articles to the Senate, but until she does, the Senate has nothing to consider. — Hanover

He was impeached in the public's imagination. That's all that matters.

Since the public will think it was a witch hunt post acquittal, democrats won't profit at all from the impending show trial. May as well hold the articles indefinitely.

he is the anti-politician. — NOS4A2

Capital-P Politicians aren't the only politicians. Con-artists are politicians too: power is their art and their science.

Trump is the consummate con-artist-politician. A born carnival barker.

After P. T. Barnum: this is Trump's circus and you - Nosferatu - are its sucker.

Is he the sucker? Or are we, for giving him a stage and willing actors? Who do you think stands to gain from keeping up the appearance of a debate?

Who do you think stands to gain from keeping up the appearance of a debate? — Echarmion

We're carnies. He's the barker.

There is no way I see to stop being a carny. I might as well exercise my wit and prose.

Even though Trump will probably not be impeached by the senate (there is yet a chance depending on what else comes out in the trial), the fact that congress has impeached the president (document transmission technicalities not withstanding) has been a very important thing for the future of democracy.

I know how that sounds, but the rest of the world has ostensibly been watching Trump get away with apparently criminal acts, and since America is supposed to the best and baddest and most free democracy around, it sends the message that democracy doesn't work. America still sets global precedent, and even though many Americans care more about short term expediency than highfalutin ideals, it's the highfalutin ideals (if sound) that give us long-term civil stability (both as nations and as a global community of nations).

Even with the lower house's impeachment, it is still a strong reprimand that will give future presidents pause. If every time a president commits impeachable acts we all say "but if we try to impeach then they will just get a boost in the next election cycle" then no president will ever be impeached unless the upper and lower houses have a majority against the president's party, and America will effectively become a two party dictatorship where both sides take turns jerking the wheel to spite the chassis...

I know how that sounds, but the rest of the world has ostensibly been watching Trump get away with apparently criminal acts, and since America is supposed to the best and baddest and most free democracy around, it sends the message that democracy doesn't work. — VagabondSpectre

Think about what "most free democracy" means and you'll see why democracy doesn't work.

it's a simple act for Pelosi to hand the articles to the Senate, but until she does, the Senate has nothing to consider. — Hanover

And yet the leader has already spoken as if it is fait accompli?

Think about what "most free democracy" means and you'll see why democracy doesn't work. — Metaphysician Undercover

I see why it means: democracy is not perfect, but I'm not sure why you're saying it doesn't work...

The Senate has not been asked to decide anything and there has been no request by the House that Trump be considered for removal from office. Sure, it's a simple act for Pelosi to hand the articles to the Senate, but until she does, the Senate has nothing to consider. — Hanover

And the reason that the articles have not been forwarded, is because Schumer and McConnell haven't been able to agree on the rules. McConnell has basically stated outright that he intends to acquit Trump with as little commentary as possible, whilst Schumer is demanding to hear from Mick Mulvaney, John Bolton and perhaps a couple of others. McConnell has said that it's 'pointless to re-run all the hearings', which is another of many lies, because those individuals have been gagged by Trump. So the Democrats are quite rightly taking their time, rather than cave in to a rubber-stamping exercise by the corrupted Senate.

Even though Trump will probably not be impeached by the senate (there is yet a chance depending on what else comes out in the trial) — VagabondSpectre

Indeed there is. And I strongly suspect that the longer this is drawn out, the more lunatic Trump's behaviour will become. It would not be at all surprising if he did something so outrageous that he has to resign, or, if Mulvaney or Bolton do testify, that their testimony is so conclusive that he has no choice to resign. But in any case, myself and a few hundred million others are really hoping that he does, because if he's acquitted by the Senate, then what you're seeing will not be an impeachment, but the coronation of the Emperor.

Sorry maybe I’m missing something - but what does trump have to do with anything philosophical?

Political, yes. But philosophical? You can’t say trump has a philosophy besides a fairly uninteresting brand of opportunism.

Sorry maybe I’m missing something — Metaphyzik

There's no rule that every discussion on this forum is confined to philosophy, current affairs is also a subject of discussion. You will note there's a long-running thread on Brexit also.

democracy is not perfect, but I'm not sure why you're saying it doesn't work... — VagabondSpectre

As Churchill grimly remarked, 'democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.'

Capital-P Politicians aren't the only politicians. Con-artists are politicians too: power is their art and their science.

Trump is the consummate con-artist-politician. A born carnival barker.

After P. T. Barnum: this is Trump's circus and you - Nosferatu - are its sucker.

Goodbye philosophyforum.

Apologies, I am a political cartoonist and figures like Trump and Johnson are inviting my response.