Indeed. Take for example art, music and math, all of which, confer no Darwinian biological advantages. — 3017amen
If the atheist can actually make a human and create consciousness, case closed. In the meantime, the phenomenon of 'self aware beings' certainly not only suggests a metaphysical existence or will of sorts, but continues to provide for a sense of wonderment that causes us to think about things like art, music, math, philosophy, cosmology, love et al. all of which confer little to no biological survival value. — 3017amen
Math could also be a consequence of increased reasoning capabilites (which certainly confer an organism biological advantage). Simply because a trait doesnt give an advantage doesnt mean the trait didnt evolve through other mechanisms. — StarsFromMemory
And again you assume that art, music, math and philosophy provide no survival advantage and even if they dont, it doesnt mean they can't have evolved gradually. — StarsFromMemory
Why should we have two ways to avoid falling objects when one confers no biological survival advantage? — 3017amen
My reason to opt for yes, over no, is that there's a lot of strangeness(unknowingness, pure strangeness, super-massive nature, statistical anomalies); so, external to the universe, is probably not nothing, but, some kind of life — Qwex
What's stopping things from happening when, per se, power such as a universe exists? What's to stop a much simpler world from manifesting? — Qwex
I have not claimed God. I have claimed creator.
That means, resources were ordered so that a big bang would occur, I guess in the form of noxious clouds.
This doesn't mean the spirit of the creator passed into the fray and it become omnipotent. It means it had know-how and resources. — Qwex
Yeah but you assumed I posit that this person is sat there as the moderator or something when all I'm suggesting is he's the catalyst. — Qwex
What's stopping things from happening when, per se, power such as a universe exists? What's to stop a much simpler world from manifesting? — Qwex
When I made the OP I had a small glimpse of a big idea, yes I need to perfect the OP with more information. I'll come back at a later date with a lot of thought put into it. — Qwex
Where I'm stuck is the specific meaning of strangeness I had at the time. — Qwex
Asking why is again implying that evolution must have a purpose or a direction Why not have two ways of doing so? — StarsFromMemory
You would have to support your argument with the exclusive virtues of survival, purposelessness, randomness and chance, to say the least.
Accordingly, mathematics then becomes redundant since it is not needed for anything, as it specifically relates to that Darwinian criteria. We don't need it to survive.
Then, of course, add art, music, philosophy, wonderment, love, the will, and all other related features of self-awareness from consciousness, that are also beyond logical existence as it were(subconsciousness/un-consciousness) or unexplained phenomena. The evidence points to something beyond said criteria. — 3017amen
Time has no beginning so the universe couldn’t have been created. Creation happens in time but before time nothing is all that is possible. — Leviosa
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