You are either lazy like Satan, or lying to us about your beliefs. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm lazy like Satan.

I'm praying for your soul, you are condemned to hell brother! Is that what you want to hear?

Hahaha — 3017amen

You go ahead and pray to the satanic Yahweh.

That will show just hoe low you will go, morality wise.

Regards
DL

I'm lazy like Satan. — frank

You are also quite the liar.

Regards
DL

Just trolling you a little. You're too easy.

Satan is going to get you, watch out!!!!!!! — 3017amen

All the biblical characters fear me. I am hard on imaginary constructs.

Regards
DL

You're too easy. — frank

You should not take advantage of a guy with no memory for faces and names.

Regards
DL

Knowledge can only occur if you can think ‘I think therefore I am’. If you know something happened then you think you know something happened. It’s because of our thinking that we are self conscious and we are fearful. If we don’t think at all then we are always happy and in a ‘heaven’. Think about it, if you don’t think you wouldn’t think to wear clothes as you wouldn’t think about people judging you or keeping warm. So once a person thinks they give rise to suffering and pain as our own thinking makes us suffer. I suppose the fruit of knowledge, although it sounds tasty, removes the eater from a heaven.
If you have ever watched a cartoon named sponge bob you can see this as sponge bob is mostly happy as a result of not thinking too much and another character named squidward is really depressed and angry as he thinks too much and is quite clever. ( this is all theoretical by the way, so if there are discrepancies let me know )

So when you have knowledge you lose your innocence. A part of you dies.

(If we don’t think at all then we are always happy and in a ‘heaven’)

Correction* You wouldn't be happy, you would just be. Sounds quite boring eh.

Fundamentalist Christians think it's more likely that we know what the writings from thousands of years ago really meant in those days, than that our scientific testing on rocks is accurate. That is an interesting debate

Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.

Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.

Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.

It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.

Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.

Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.

Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?

Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?

Why and how does knowledge kill us?

If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?

The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.

This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.

The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.

In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.

Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm not sure why I would expect you to read all of below but an oversimplification of everything below is:

Jesus Christ is extremely smart and can predict everything. People's destinies are to some degree changeable at the next moment in the future but only if they are willing to feel bad about their judgement abilities at the next moment in the future. 1st Corinthians chapter 3. It is very hard to judge a persons character. There are 100s of variables and so on and so on. I feel you are the only person on this forum i'm authorized to "evangelize" because you always try to "evangelize" all of us to your form of christianity.

On that professor's notion of is Jesus Christ schizophrenic?

Its hard to feel completely comfortable with why Satan was created and why (despite predestination doesn't directly directly directly directly contradict free will) he allowed us to make bad decisions. The Bible says the God/Jesus Christ doesn't think the way man does. I speculate that prior to the creation of the angels and the mortal non living gods that God perhaps some measure felt for whatever reason to start creating entities beyond the Trinity. While I personally am not opposed to the idea of the Holy Trinity and I do not fall out side of the orthodoxy of Trinitarianism, I do believe focusing on the theology of Trinitarianism as though it was core Christian belief, changes our focus from Jesus Christ's personality to some lesser Biblical truth. I don't believe Trinitarian theology is paganism but I feel the Christian church should focus on the personality of Jesus Christ as laid out in the old testament and the new testament. And once again a careful reading of the major prophets of the old testament will reveal a God and also a Jesus Christ that truly showed compassion to the people of the old testament and also to the people of the new testament. Now many will say that Jesus Christ wasn't alone before he created the angels and the other entities however perhaps my frailties make me fail to see beyond the idea that if i'm inclined to play a video game or build a tower out of a deck of cards, that there is either a sharp or dull impulse to push me towards that endeavor. We people have a God given dna and also a nurturing of our development (the situations we are put into) that sharply influence are predispositions. God/Jesus Christ I would argue based on the name Jehovah ("I_AM" or "I_AM_WHAT_AM", the latter being a questionable interpretation as far as I know) does not inherently know his origins nor can give a complex answer that caused him to have the personality that he has. We don't have that "problem". So let me speculate that when Jesus Christ decided to start creating the angels, mortal non living gods and other entities I believe under my understanding of what i consider rational, the actions of Jesus Christ/God in the beginning are sometimes attributed to what would commonly be called true randomness (as opposed to computer generated randomness or even the seemingly random nature of our Universe). I'm not saying that the personality of God/Jesus Christ is random but that due to my frailties I don't know how to describe this concept in a more accurate way.

So at some point he created entities that do not include the Trinity (I suppose the Trinity existed outside of time and forwards and backwards through eternity). I also speculate God/Jesus Christ spent time in the beginning just sitting there trying to understand what was going on before he started creating entities. I also speculate the time period prior to this "age" or self awareness loops around and some how pushes Jesus Christ into a sort of looping God/being that exists outside of time and thus you could say the time before time should more accurately be defines that substance or deity always has existed outside of time. Most of what i am writing in this post is my own speculation (perhaps shared by many Christians).

When he created the entities such as angels or mortal and non living gods, did he create them as spiritual or "physical" creatures (angels are created so you could say they are creatures). To my current understanding of the Bible the angels and mortal non living gods are spiritual. The question i ask is to what degree do these creatures have the tendency to mimic their creator. To what degree (1 to 100%) is their conduct predictable. Humans are 100% predictable but are gods or angels 100% predictable. And once again is 1% or 100% predictable? Satan was actually number 2 to Jesus Christ right from the beginning. Many of the demons to my understanding were in fact angels at one time. For now on i will refer angels (perhaps good servant gods) as angels and bad angels and also demons as "bad gods". So we have the Trinity, the angels and then the bad gods.

At some point Satan betrayed Jesus Christ/God and so on and so on.

Why do I say in the classical sense that Jesus Christ/God is not schizophrenic but at the same time Christianity is not a dualist religion. The Bible says
that God does not think at all like the way people do, so let me say this: I speculate the need to create Satan as to some degree inferior to the Trinity was in compliance to the basic logic that if you were an ancient warlord or ancient king, your ruling was not based on a hereditary nature but your kingship was attained through merit. This is not something you can say for modern kings. I speculate God/Jesus Christ gave Satan to some degree an inferior nature to the Trinity because this is not unkind but it is simply logical and rational. I would argue this could be said of all entities and it even carries over into the creation of people but I speculate that the relationship between the former concept and intended human frailty is atleast mildly close but it might not even qualify as a linear relationship (and ofcourse not one to one considering a one to one relationship is a type of linear relationship).

I would like to speculate and here i have much misgivings about this speculation (keyword speculation) that Satan surprised to some degree God/Jesus Christ considering his nature was spiritual rather than matter. I do believe perhaps matter and energy can be built from spiritual substance but perhaps we could say matter and energy is an extremely complex dancing of spiritual forces that vibrates continuously and makes matter and energy have the qualities that we witness on a daily basis. Perhaps dealing with Satan is like my brother playing me (the opponent) in chess, my brother is much smarter than me and will probably will win the match but he must stress slightly over the issue. I would argue if Jesus Christ played any human in chess, the match would in all practicality be over before it started considering the realities of Scientific determinism. Jesus Christ, I speculate, stresses to some degree when dealing with non living gods but when dealing with people the results of what would happen came in before anything took place. My last speculation is that to some small degree Jesus Christ acts as a sociopath only in the sense that he does a criminal profile of all the entities he ever created. In that sense (and i stress this is a very remote and vague relationship) to some very small degree that God/Jesus Christ can be said to have minor similarities to someone who has schizophrenia.

I will go on to further to say in the end each Christian will never worship another Christian, but we the Porcelain chess pieces on his chess board will be all worshiped by the living God. Is it lawful for God to love and adore his wife (The Christian Church). I speculate that it is. We the christians were used as living sacrifices to manipulate the great spiritual powers (angels and non living gods) that were in Heaven.

On why God/Jesus Christ gave us inferior and imperfect dna as opposed to perfect dna like himself, I speculate there are various reasons for that: going beyond the fact that Jesus Christ achieved his status as an ancient king or warlord achieves his status being not through heredity but through merit, I believe among many other reasons, Jesus Christ wanted to show love to an animal similar to him and to love an animal not because of what that animal can do for him but for what that he (Jesus Christ) can do for that animal. There is only one marriage or sexual relationship in heaven and for all eternity and that the marriage between Jesus Christ and the Christian Church. Once again just about all of this falls outside the pale of orthodoxy and is mostly speculation.

Fundamentalist Christians think it's more likely that we know what the writings from thousands of years ago really meant in those days, than that our scientific testing on rocks is accurate. That is an interesting debate — Gregory

I'm an independent fundamental baptist and the KJV, New Arabic Version, the ESV and the Hebrew all point to an old earth. Genesis chapter 2 (check out the New Arabic Version first). A Catholic Bishop from the instruction from the Roman Papacy came up with the 6000 year number. Proverbs chapter 1.

Sin was born with the egg. Only we didn't have bodies to make it or hearts to know it. Sin is a single cell.

Christianity is based on a questionable premise: the making of evil people into good people with a POOF! It's called mercy by honest people, but then maybe mercy is questionable

You should not take advantage of a guy with no memory for faces and names. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Sorry about that. But you're still going to hell.

maybe mercy is questionable — Gregory

When a law is well written, mercy is built into it or not required.

Mercy is arbitrary and a rapist, for instance, should not get mercy just for voting for the judge.

If a victim, we would likely tell the judge where to shove his mercy.

Regards
DL

[quote="frank;384471 "Sorry about that. But you're still going to hell.[/quote]

I need proof of hell, and see none, and know that it is illogical and god destroying if a god would have to create such a place, --- for purposeless torture and death.

Regards
DL

Sin was born with the egg. — ZzzoneiroCosm

I agree.

Sin is natural and we would not exist if sin was not here and now.

Regards
DL

Jesus Christ is extremely smart and can predict everything. — christian2017

Buddy.

You started with this flat out lie and you want to chat!!!

Stop lying and I am here for you.

No I did not bother reading your other lies. I am careful with mine and if you cannot be ------

Regards
DL

A part of you dies. — Leviosa

Yes, but a better you is born. One could say reborn.

I have experience a paradigm shift due to new knowledge. It is quite a process.

I think it advisable that we should perpetually seek new knowledge and gods and thus not end in the idol worship of what we think is the final answer.

Regards
DL

I need proof of hell, — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Volcanoes.

...Stop lying".

Life is full of lies, get over it! Hahaha

Seriously, you say you've studied the bible: see Ecclesiastes!

Otherwise, you better hide, Satan's coming to get you!!!!!

Just a little tough-love brother. Like Frank said, you're too easy :joke:

What is tough love is Christianity and it's homophobic and misogynous teachings as well as the idea that a genocidal prick of a god can somehow be good.

I try to reduce that harm, while the Christians do not even see the harm, given that their moral sense has been corrupted.

You keep smiling and laughing at all those victims. That's a good mental midget.

Regards
DL

Christianity is misogynous and homophobic. How should you resolve that problem?

Better hurry and answer that, Satan's coming!!!!

Christianity is misogynous and homophobic. How should you resolve that problem? — 3017amen

All I can do is try to have people recognize that they have no just cause for their discrimination against women and gays.

Regards
DL

Good! But are you now suggesting one should throw the baby out with the bathwater ?

Good! But are you now suggesting one should throw the baby out with the bathwater ? — 3017amen

Is a genocidal son murdering baby worth saving?

Regards
DL

A lot of Christians put the emphasis on Jesus taking our punishment. But this logically has the Father saying "SOMEONE suffered pain for this, so I am satisfied". Monstrous. If they emphasize the mercy element of Jesus's sacrifice, you still have sinners unable to save themselves, so they are saved by POOF! God, for them, changes evil people into good out of mercy. Think about that for a minute. It's not obviously moral

Is a genocidal son murdering baby worth saving? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Not sure I'm following that one. Are you suggesting there is no forgiveness in life?

Not sure I'm following that one. Are you suggesting there is no forgiveness in life? — 3017amen

The baby you referred to was Yahweh. No?

Or did you mean his homophobic and misogynous genocidal god loving religion?

Regards
DL

Think about that for a minute. It's not obviously moral — Gregory

No argument from me on this.

It bears repeating to all Christians and I do whenever I can.

Regards
DL