My analysis of the root flaw of capitalism could be phrased as "all lending (at interest) is predatory". There are degrees, of course, what we normally call predatory lending is just such an egregious case that we can't help but see what's going on there. But fundamentally all lending at interest (and rent more generally, as interest is just rent on money) is of the same qualitative character: those who have wealth to spare can profit at the expense of those who need to borrow it just to keep going. — Pfhorrest
Some people just love things that I don't. I recently talked to a guy that loved drag racing. Is that irrational given the risk? You tell me (I personally think it's insane but I don't know the kind of pleasure he gets from it.) Personally, I love poker and I've been playing for a while which also entails a degree of risk. Am I irrational? — BitconnectCarlos
I had a friend who grew up poor his entire life and had finally attained some degree of financial stability blow his savings on an expensive car. Am I - who grew up in a very different environment - going to label his action "irrational?" Yes, financially, I think we would both agree that the action was irrational but from his perspective owning a nice car finally means one "made it" or had attained a certain status - something that I wouldn't be conscious of owing to my class upbringing. — BitconnectCarlos
If you have a more full proof, all-encompassing method of determining which goals are rational then let me know. — BitconnectCarlos
In the past seven years since I last went flat broke, I have saved up about two years worth of my current living expenses. At that rate, if nothing catastrophic ruins my life again, and I keep living how I live now in this tiny trailer, by myself, never getting married, then I could retire at 65 with about ten years expenses saved up. But I hope to live past 75, so... — Pfhorrest
I have little sympathy for people who can see a problem coming, oh, 40-50 years in the future and not do anything about it. If you don't take care of your life that's not my problem. Get a side hustle. Get a better job. Train as a welder or an electrician. Move to a cheaper area. It's not someone's fault for being into poverty, but it is their fault if they die poor. Plenty of people don't care to try to advance. Not my problem. — BitconnectCarlos
Lenders or renters may give more than they receive in order to help others, make a fair trade, or take advantage of those in a weaker position.
You seem to be claiming that lending is inherently predatory in nature. — praxis
All that planning is fine and good, provided that your saving for old age isn't at the expense of your present happiness. I suspect that that may be the case, but correct me if I'm misreading you.
If you're sacrificing or postponing some high value of yours simply because you're scared to be broke or homeless, I think a better balance is needed. — Xtrix
However, if you manage to do everything else you want to do, while also saving a bit of money, then I'm envious indeed! I have no savings for the future, no 401K, nothing. I don't have health insurance, and for years I had no car insurance (my car was fully paid, now I finance so I am required to have it). Maybe this is all very "risky," I don't know. I guess I figure there's social security and medicare, or else family and friends, and I'm confident in my resourcefulness. I don't require much materialistically in order to live well. That may change when I'm an older or elderly man, I don't know. Plenty of government help you can get, and if you live within your means that's generally good enough. If not, and I end up going bankrupt or accumulating a lot of debt that I'll never pay off, so be it. What do you make of this? Does this seem crazy to you? — Xtrix
To argue this is all merit-based, simply a matter of proper work ethic or motivation, is simply not true.
Class matters.
The idea that you can "move upwards" is an illusion.
You know there are plenty of examples of people who simply don't get the opportunities or resources that other people do.
Not at all. It would be like if drunk driving rates were to skyrocket in this country and you saw me getting into my car drunk; could I just tell you: "well MOST people drive drunk, it's fine!" — BitconnectCarlos
You can literally educate yourself for free on this topic. There's a billion resources and it's vastly relevant to your life if you're not already rich and you're concerned about your financial well-being. — BitconnectCarlos
I've mentioned this before: There is no minimum cost to enter stocks or cryptocurrency. You could throw $5 into an extremely high risk one. — BitconnectCarlos
I've mentioned this before: There is no minimum cost to enter stocks or cryptocurrency. You could throw $5 into an extremely high risk one. — BitconnectCarlos
Here in the UK the privelidged classes are of the opinion that the poor choose to be poor, it's a lifestyle choice. If they don't like it well they can get one of their rich daddy's friends to give them a job, or set up a business making face masks for example. It must be their choice, or they would do something about it.You are mistakenly assuming that the destitute have the money, the knowledge, the method, the ability to implement, and the time it takes in order to do all these things...
And what if they are born with flat feet, so the army doesn't want them?People are just a helpless bunch, aren't they?
Lending at interest is a transaction where someone who started out with more than they needed (enough to let someone borrow some) ends up with more than they started with, and someone who started out with less than they needed (requiring them to borrow something from someone else) ends up with even less than they started with. That is inherently exploitative of the poor by the rich. — Pfhorrest
Nonsense. It’s basically an exchange of value (including future value), which as I’ve explained can be generous from the lender side, fair, or exploitive. Whatever capitalistic incentives may lead to exploitation aren’t inherent in lending itself. — praxis
There is a wealth of research how personal choices have very little to do with socio-economic (upward) mobility. The fact that we're still arguing this is either because of people not informing themselves or the ideological barriers that come with being born and raised in the US. Fuck, if it was all about personal choices, don't you think the majority of Sierra Leonians would've pulled themselves up by their own boot straps?
over 87% of people who were asked how they escaped poverty said they did so through “individual initiative” — NOS4A2
And what if they are born with flat feet, so the army doesn't want them?
Will she find a proper job when she grows up, to pay the healthcare bill? And what if she is too lazy to do the work?
That doesn't make it "fine". However, if 70% of the population was drinking and driving I would think it ridiculous to think I am going to solve (even partially) that problem by saying, "hey, why don't all you people stop drunk driving and act right!"
That doesn't tell why they would be better neighborhoods. Or that with lower income you would automatically have worse neighborhoods.3. Their houses are in better neighborhoods so there's less crime, resulting in less damage to our theft of property; — Benkei
There must be jobs (economic circumstances). You have to know they exist (access to information). You have to be able to physically reach them (quality of infrastructure & costs). You have to qualify for them (access to education). You shouldn't be discriminated against (female, poor, weird accent or foreign). They have to pay enough (economic circumstances, political minimum wage, negotiation power). etc. etc.
The classical capitalist view that poverty is not a social problem but an individual one has been dead in the water for about three decades now but political ideology takes long to die. Obviously a lot of people benefit in the short term from not emancipating poor people. In the long run it doesn't make economic sense though.
when asking survivors how many of them survived the response rate was 100%. Have fun with yourself.
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