A fascist religion would not have it any other way. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

OMG I love you! :love: Where do you come from? What lead you to that awareness? When the National Defense Education Act (1958) was enacted we replaced our liberal education modeled after Athens education for well rounded, individual growth and good moral judgment, with the German model of education for technology for military and industrial purposes and left moral training to the Church. Now Trump is our president and he is the only person we need to govern us, just as the kings of the Bible. :zip:

To live infinitely, would be the most boring existence, I think, and would leave us all wishing we could die. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Achilles in Homer's Iliad said that the gods envy us because we are mortal: any moment could be our last, and this makes everything more beautiful. “You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again”.Jun 17, 2017
The Gods – are they really jealous of us? - The Joy of Living
https://thejoyofliving.co › Blogs & Newsletters

Intelligent though scares the hell out of Christian men and the women who dream of some sugar daddy to protect them. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Okay, you are really pushing things, :grin:

The 2012 Texas Republican Agenda was to prevent education in the higher-order thinking skills. Teachers had to take Texas to the supreme court level to put a stop to them being forced to teach creationism as equal to science and use science books that treat creationism as equal to science. Texas Republicans are responsible for the election of Eisenhower, Reagan, and Bush, and they support Trump.

SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP - Republican Party of Texas
https://www.texasgop.org › support-president-trump
SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP. Sign Up for Updates. Enter your email address*. CAPTCHA. This iframe contains the logic required to handle Ajax powered ... — Texas GOP

Our failure to be aware of what Christians have done to our democracy and what they are trying to do, is perhaps the worst reality the world has ever faced. Germany was a very small country with very limited resources compared to the US that has adopted the German model of bureaucracy and German model of education for technology for military and industrial purposes. Does that answer the question in the title of this thread?

I totally agree with you, but I think we are engaging Christians and I want to stress science has done more for us than religion in terms a religious person might grasp. — Athena

Engaging with Christians in the progressive left wing that uses logos is not so bad. Trying to talk sense to those who use mythos and are mostly too far gone to have an intelligent chat with.

Thanks for the great reply.

You are an example of why women should not shut up in church or told not to teach men anything.

Regards
DL

Our failure to be aware of what Christians have done to our democracy and what they are trying to do, is perhaps the worst reality the world has ever faced. Germany was a very small country with very limited resources compared to the US that has adopted the German model of bureaucracy and German model of education for technology for military and industrial purposes. Does that answer the question in the title of this thread? — Athena

Partly.

It shows how the dumbing down of America and much of the West that has been doing on has been successful and not enough Americans want to be the fittest as most have settled for being sheeple instead of thinking people.

I hope it does not take as long to reverse that trend. I want the West to dominate, idea wise, and not a less progressive regime. I think China is kicking our rumps.

I do not think I am pushing too hard when I say Christians want a sugar daddy.

The only thing that could sell them on the notion that a genocidal and infanticidal satanic god, and his homophobic and misogynous religion can somehow be a good god, is if his rewards for them are just as extreme. That is why they are all hopping to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven. Sugar daddy or scapegoat Jesus. Same thing.

I think we are close in thinking though,. Mine are just testosterone influenced while your estrogen tempers your sharper edge.

Women should rule the world and not men. It would make future negotiations for the huge problems coming our world way a lot easier to find solutions to.

Regards
DL

There were a number of testimonies that got labelled as "Gnostic" by the "Church Fathers."
The orthodoxy that shut out all but one view was not concerned by the differences it dispensed with.
That suggests the matter of forming the authorized view was only concerned with putting down anything that differed from it in any way.
That explanation does not require pitting one narrative against another. The demand to have only one story wiped out the other ones as part of enabling the growth of power in a secular world.

It is urgent that we understand why Christians have again formed into a life-threatening fascist state. Nations from time to time need psychoanalysis just as humans do because stuff gets stuck in their subconscious and takes over without awareness of what is driving the train of thought and action. Surely most Christians today would not agree with Hegel about the state, while at the same time they are acting as though they completely agree with him. That is, like the Germans, they are not drawing a line between religion and government but as Hegel has argued believe their nation and the power and glory of God are one and the same thing. It is the subconscious driving the train of thought and action, we need to bring this is to conscious awareness. Some non-Christians might be surprised that they too are infected by this thought virus.

For Hegel, the State is the highest embodiment of the Divine Idea on earth and the chief means used by the Absolute in manifesting itself as it unfolds towards its perfect fulfillment. Hegel argued that the State is the highest form of social existence and the end product of the development of mankind, from family to civil society to lower forms of political groupings.

The State is a superorganic whole made up of individuals grouped into local communities, voluntary associations, etc. These parts have no meaning except in relation to the State, which is an end in itself. The State can demand that its parts be sacrificed to its interests. Each man is subordinate to the ethical whole – if the State claims one's life then the individual must surrender it. Because everything is ultimately one, the collective has primacy over the individual. Hegel's State has no room for the idea of individual rights or a liberal theory of the State; instead it provides an ethical underpinning for totalitarianism. The State is an independent, self-sustaining, superorganism made up of men and having a purpose and will of its own.

http://www.quebecoislibre.org/05/051115-11.htm

Oh dear, I am not in favor of women ruling! I am thinking of all those women who worship Trump! Talk about wanting a sugar daddy, that is exactly what these women want! I have a Christian friend who almost swoons when she speaks of what a good Father to our county Trump is.

How about the Disney movie Lion King that associates lions with the ruling class and hyenas with the mass that must be kept under control? There is no way Ben Franklin and Jefferson would be taking their family to that movie and walking out talking about its great values!

You have missed something extremely important and have no reason to be aware of what happened because you live in a different country. However, we should be aware that the US had a liberal education based on Greek and Roman classics, and with the 1958 National Education Act came to a shift away from the classics, favoring German philosophy, especially Hegel and Nietzsche. My post are too long and don't get read, so I will stop here and hope someone picks up the ball and runs with it.
I will be hugely disappointed if people in a philosophy forum do not respond.

The demand to have only one story wiped out the other ones as part of enabling the growth of power in a secular world. — Valentinus

True that it was all about power and cash and matching the hierarchical power structure of Rome.

Power in the religious world as well.

Not wanting the peasantry to have to support the lazy and lying church hierarchy was a big part of the Gnostic thinking.

Not wanting our god to be evil like Yahweh was another.

If you know of the first few popes, you will know how decadent and immoral those popes were.

They make Rasputin look like a saint.

Have you noted how Christianity today demand the freedom of religion that they murdered so many to prevent in the past?

Hypocrisy is an accurate epithet here.

Regards
DL

It is urgent that we understand why Christians have again formed into a life-threatening fascist state. — Athena

Let me put my PHD to work here. I say that in jest as Christians see me as, --- P for pure, H for hell bound and D for Dummy.

I have no degree but will see if I can get you to see it as I do with a nut shell view.

This link shows a situation that has replicated itself in modern times by new Muslims. Just in different locations. Apologies for its length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y&feature=youtu.be

If you have listened to Christian complaints of persecution, you will know that most Christians have now been forced out of the Middle east except for the Jews in Israel.

If you were to visualize a map and Muslim incursion by immigration, and their creation of militia groups to mimic the Christian ones in the U.S., you would see that the Muslim long range play book has not changed. They tend to infiltrate to where their numbers are high enough to capture territory.

They will continue to do so till either secular forces or Christian religious forces push back like they had to do the last time they faced annihilation.

When you have two fascist forced opposing each other, only death can stop the colonialism that each religion is designed to do. Islam wants a Kalifate and Christianity wants their pope to rule the world. On earth as it is in heaven.

The same insecurity that had Trump focus his entry ban on Muslim countries when he first took office and his cozying up to his right wing fundamental chums is likely what got his vile self elected.

Add in the fact that the some of the Northern European states have already started pushing back by asking Muslims to leave.

Also add that they changed some of their laws to be anti-Muslim. --- and add in the French style laisite/secularism that France and Quebec are into, --- and I hope, will be the model for the rest of the free world, --- and you will see why Muslims will continue and likely increase in their infiltration of non-Muslim and Sharia law lands.

The weaker the West looks to right wing Christianity, the more right wing it will vote, as demonstrated by trump and his twin Boris in England. You might also recognise that France and Germany have also swung to the right.

I think we are seeing a replica of the past, just before the West finally stopped fighting internally and started to push Islam back to it's homeland.

I think that after that next major push back and war, the world will be so fed up with vile genocidal god loving religions that both Islam and Christianity will be outlawed for the vile inhumane religions that they are.

The Noble Lie that those religions are good will finally be repealed and peace will finally come to this earth, --- if we have not polluted ourselves into extinction with our other Noble Lies about what man should be eating.

I hope my quick connecting of dots make sense to you?

I am a sprinter and not long winded when I write. Too undisciplined and I tend to prof too quickly like most P H Dummies.

Regards
DL

P.S. I just picked up the book Soon. It recognizes religions as the greatest enemy to world peace. It is talking of the distant past at present but think it may posit the kind of world I see. You will perhaps know that the U.N. already has religious schools that teach a universalist type of religion close to this Gnostic Christian's ideology. I have always been about 30 years ahead of my time in my thinking and wont live to see if my speculations are true or not, but watch Gnostic Christianity with it's unbeatable moral ideology end as the world religion.

I will be hugely disappointed if people in a philosophy forum do not respond. — Athena

Don't be, because I think, in all my travels, that I have only met a few people that I would call anything like philosophical students of talents.

I do have a few places I can link you to though should you want to be more prolific.

Don't go by my judgement though because I am a generalist and not the specialist type you are.

I also do not draw out a debate and tend to go for the throat to see if my interlocutor has anything to offer. In religion, most don't.

Regards
DL

I don't even understand how Adam's act of eating from the tree of good and evil was evil if he didn't know what evil even was until he ate the apple. — Hanover

It was found to be a sin ad acta. After the fact. He was not sinning when he ated that apple. He was found guilty of eating the apple after eating the apple, at which point he had been imbued with the knowledge to tell evil from good. He was not found guilty of eating that apple before eating the apple.

For verily I say unto you: for Adam, to fully understand sinfulness, he had to have a sense of what's evil and what's not, so he had to eat the apple in order to appreciate that eating the apple was a sin.

Had he never ated the apple, he would not need to know the difference between evil and good. Obviously. No evil, no cry.

For verily I say unto you: for Adam, to fully understand sinfulness, he had to have a sense of what's evil and what's not, so he had to eat the apple in order to appreciate that eating the apple was a sin. — god must be atheist

IOW, Yahweh punished a child who did not know he was doing anything wrong.

You do know that secular law would say that Adam did not pass the mens rea test and was not guilty of anything because he had no evil intent or evil mind.

Every court on earth would say that Yahweh did a poor judgement and Adam was innocent.

Add in that you sing that Adam's sim was a happy fault and necessary to god's paln and your view falls apart.

If you were Adam, would you further Yahweh's plan and sin, or would you derail Yahweh's great plan and not sin?

Regards
DL

Had he never ated the apple — god must be atheist

I was just wondering why you use the term apple.

Why not tell the truth in that we are talking about the knowledge of everything?

IOW, an education. Why tell Adam to stay uneducated and stupid.

Regards
DL

I like men and I have no desire to rule, but I do want to be heard and respected. To me, a man and a woman are like a right hand and left hand. One has to dominate but if they don't work together and can not coordinate there is a serious problem. :lol:

Now what I said can be a little tricky when men have to be macho and if a man is insecure and feels like he must prove himself and be in control then, of course, there will be problems. I think Greek and Roman men had a problem and that the Etruscans may have gotten things right. Accepting the balance of yin and yang may not lead to the power and glory of Rome, but could perhaps lead to a successful civilization, as long it doesn't have a neighbor like Rome or invading nomadic people.

Perhaps this could be brought back on topic? What would be the characteristics of an ideal ideology?

When life is good, and a man and woman respect each other and work together, no one needs to be a god. :wink:
.

There were a number of testimonies that got labelled as "Gnostic" by the "Church Fathers."
The orthodoxy that shut out all but one view was not concerned by the differences it dispensed with.
That suggests the matter of forming the authorized view was only concerned with putting down anything that differed from it in any way.
That explanation does not require pitting one narrative against another. The demand to have only one story wiped out the other ones as part of enabling the growth of power in a secular world. — Valentinus

What is obvious to me is the power of having special knowledge. This power is even greater if it is believed to be sacred knowledge. It becomes even greater when there is only one god, only one truth. Democracy is an imitation of the gods who argued with each other until they had a consensus on the best reasoning. None of those gods had absolute power and each one had his/her point of view.

You do know that secular law would say that Adam did not pass the mens rea test and was not guilty of anything because he had no evil intent or evil mind.

Every court on earth would say that Yahweh did a poor judgement and Adam was innocent.

Add in that you sing that Adam's sim was a happy fault and necessary to god's paln and your view falls apart.

If you were Adam, would you further Yahweh's plan and sin, or would you derail Yahweh's great plan and not sin?

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Wow, I like your argument! :clap: The God of Abraham is not a good god, and we have lived with Him and done terrible things and think this is our nature. So many have assumed the truth of the Bible for so long, that they don't question the existence of such an unjust God, nor the rightness of their own bad behavior and the harm passed on generation after generation. Our child-rearing has been damaging and our justice system is not justice. And oh do these people love to point their fingers at others and say how bad they are.

First. Let me say that Rome and Christianity have worked quite hard to reduce the gains that women had made before they took over the West. Before that Judaism was well on it's way to an equal view of women. Their myth was based on Sumer and Egyptian myths and both those peoples had a high view of women. Cleopatra, the Hollywood version aside, rules a land greater than Rome before it failed.

When life is good, and a man and woman respect each other and work together, no one needs to be a god. :wink:[/quote]

I know what you mean but have my own twisted view of equality.

Equality before the law is of course a given. No argument.

Should push comes to shove though, like at times of emergency or war, I would follow the law of the sea, and like it or not, my wife and kid and other women and children are in that life boat

And there had better not be a member of the Captain Coward Club in the boat or he will move at my hand. If that is macho to some, fuck um.

Perhaps this could be brought back on topic? What would be the characteristics of an ideal ideology?

My own Gnostic Christianity, of course. Kidding, somewhat.

A few thoughts.
It would offer the electorate, be it political or religious, the maximum amount of freedom of speech and actions that can be gained in a controlled system where the larger laws or sins are governed by law.
Those would be murder, theft, etc.

One feature it would have would be a socio economic demographic pyramid that is intentionally controlled by statistics so that there is no official poverty. You might recognize that poverty in rich nations like what we have today is imposed via the tax systems and IMO that is immoral. Gandhi thought the same if I may name drop.

I would also have mine set up by guild so as to change the focus of each of us just applying greed to our worth, to that of concentrating more on moving up honestly within our guilds for the glory alone, even as the cash would come automatically.

My best ideology would have a leader who was tyrannical when it came to administrating law, but super flexible and curious to see if he or his his people could come up with better laws to follow.

That seeking for better law idea is not only in my Gnostic Christianity but it was also a trait of Egypt, which was one of the best well run societies of the old world in terms of freedom and equality for all.

It would also be run more by experts and crown corporations than elected people who get there by name recognition like what happens today when people elect T V stars that are basically ill suited or incompetent in leading.

It would also reward whistle blowers handsomely, instead of trying to quiet them or jail them the way most governments do today, while telling us that more should whistle blow. Hypocrites those.

I am sure I have left many issues unanswered but did not want to write a wall of text. I live by the old 6 inch rule. Ask away on any issue of particular interest to you.

Regards
DL — Athena

And oh do these people love to point their fingers at others and say how bad they are. — Athena

The log eyed telling the splinter eyed how to look , meanwhile if you threatened to use their theistic law on then, they would cry like babies to be judged by the moral secular law instead of their god's immoral and unjust laws. From their no divorce law and their stoning children for acting out injustice.

Their hypocrisy is legendary.

Regards
DL

Women should rule the world and not men. It would make future negotiations for the huge problems coming our world way a lot easier to find solutions to. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Seriously? The same women continuously vote the parties who advocate globalism and unlimited third world mass immigration because it feels so good? By and large, the female vote has been a disaster.

If you know of the first few popes, you will know how decadent and immoral those popes were.

They make Rasputin look like a saint. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Really?

Hummm!

Here are the names of the first ten popes:
Peter
Linus
Anacletus
Clement
Evarestus
Alexander
Sixtus
Telesphorus
Hyginus
Pius
Anicetus
Sotor

Inform us, Excellency, as to why these men were so decadent and immoral they make Rasputin look like a saint.

Please.

I am just scrolling through this thread, and I am scratching my head how people come up with this weird stuff. "It is urgent that we understand why Christians have again formed into a life-threatening fascist state." What?? Looking around, any life-threatening fascist states are not Christian, they are either communist or islamic. What the f%&&% are you people rambling about?

And this gem: I am thinking of all those women who worship Trump! Again, wtf? Are you seriously unaware that the female vote is majority anti-Trump and pro globalist, nanny-state, anti-freedom? What are you people smoking here?

Seriously? The same women continuously vote the parties who advocate globalism and unlimited third world mass immigration because it feels so good? By and large, the female vote has been a disaster. — Nobeernolife

As compared to our last 5,000 years of disastrous male driven war history.

Go give your testosterone filled head a shake.

You might wonder, after clearing the garbage, why the 20,000 years prior to our disgusting history, we had peace under the goddesses.

Try learning from our past mistakes.

Regards
DL

Inform us, Excellency, as to why these men were so decadent and immoral they make Rasputin look like a saint. — Frank Apisa

Think inquisitions and witch burning and if you need more, come back, after you do the research that proves my words.

Regards
DL,

As compared to our last 5,000 years of disastrous male driven war history. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

What? Christianity is 5000 years old? In what universe?
And what does "male" have to do with it? Yes, typically males die in wars, protecting females. That is part of life of our species.

You might wonder, after clearing the garbage, why the 20,000 years prior to our disgusting history, we had peace under the goddesses. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Can you give us an overview over this 20,000 years of history that you claim to know so well, as well as these goddesses?

t the female vote is majority anti-Trump and pro globalist, — Nobeernolife

Thanks for showing us why women should rule.

They like to gather consensus while that seems to offend you.

Women unite, men divide.

Sure, men have ruined many to make them like you, but most are too intelligent.

When they decide to collectively protect humanity, we macho stupid men had better get T F out of their way.

We are killing our planet and you want to divide it more to insure it dies.

I look forward to Athena pinning your ears back and showing you for the goof you are.

Regards
DL

What? Christianity is 5000 years old? In what universe? — Nobeernolife

Christianity is based on 5,000 year old Egyptian and Sumerian myths.

Can you give us an overview over this 20,000 years of history — Nobeernolife

No need, but I can link you to the appropriate scholars if you want to take better than on hour educating yourself. Warning, it is a boring process.

No need because all you have to di is look at when we started to fortify our city states. Just after creating our male gods of war.

Regards.
DL

You wrote: "If you know of the first few popes, you will know how decadent and immoral those popes were. They make Rasputin look like a saint."

So I gave you a list of the FIRST 12 POPES (more than just the first few)...and asked you what made them decadent and immoral.

Now you are accusing them of atrocities that occurred CENTURIES AFTER THEY WERE DEAD.

Not a single person on that list (the first 12 popes) had ANYTHING to do with witch burning or inquisitions.

Man up!

Simply acknowledge that you were talking out of your ass when you made that accusation.

Or...continue the bullshit.

It's kinda cute.

Frank Apisa — Frank Apisa

What a dummy you are.

Did you really expect that I would be your dog and fetch on command.

All I need is this link. Instead of me taking the time to explain it all to you, just take the time to watch it and learn.

https://www.worldhistory.biz/photos-and-videos-ancient-history/90919-history-of-the-christianitys-first-1000-years.html

That or just recognize the truth in the last link of what follows.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop
1k
Frank Apisa
— Frank Apisa

What a dummy you are. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

No...I am not a dummy.

You made an assertion...I've asked you to back it up...and you have declined.

I understand why you declined...which is because you were merely shooting off your mouth.

You have absolutely no evidence whatever that the first few popes were decadent and immoral.

Interesting how you squirm!

You and I have very different points of view. Let us celebrate the gods and goddesses who greatly increased our knowledge with the different points of view and arguing.

On one thing we agree. Reason is better than religion. If I may, I want to talk about how we are taught to think. That is NOT what we are taught to think, but how. I refer again to fast and slow thinking, with fast thinking being reactionary and not exactly thinking. People who focus their lives on religion, tend to be reactionary thinkers. Everything is filtered through their belief system and what is not agreeable to their belief system is rejected without thought. That is the reaction.

I wish I could remember the exact page in my very old logic book from a different time when we were not so sure of themselves, so I could quote it. It stresses we should never be too sure ourselves because our knowledge is very limited. I would say that is especially so when we are focused on a religion rather than a philosophical "I don't know" and have the curiosity of child eager to discover something new. That is so different from "I don't question what I know because I know God's truth and if you don't agree with me you are wrong." Education for democracy has promotedfast thinking and discouraged slow thinking. My old grade school textbooks, warn against such closed thinking, again and again.

When I was young, the idea of being humble seemed a terrible thing but now I get it. Being a "know it all" is now my idea of terrible. :grin: If we see what is happening as in part worshiping youth and destroying respect of our elders, and education that leads to "this is right or it is wrong" thinking we might see a more militant approach to life then if we are not so sure of ourselves, and it is my life experience that "the more we know, the more we know what we do not know". We have specialized and narrowed our thinking far too much to have good judgment and we don't listen to our elders who know better.

Morale is, that high spirited feeling we get when we believe we are doing the right thing. Religion gives people that, and being pious gives people a sense of self-esteem. We are viewing secularism as lacking morality and this is a failure to understand democracy through the classics. We have a morale problem because we have a moral problem and we have a moral problem because we have an education problem!