So far as I can tell, there are plenty of fools and few wise people, then as now; and the age or period of a saying, text, or doctrine is no sign of its merits.I use the interpretation of the older and wiser ancient people.
I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
Nobeernolife
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What Athena said is absolutely correct. The "Allah" of Islam...IS the god of Abraham.
— Frank Apisa
Seeing that Allah opposes everything the Christian god says and hates its followers, that claim would only make any sense if this united god was schizophrenic.
Now go away, troll. — Nobeernolife
I've heard that some scholars interpret the knowledge in the story to mean "knowledge of everything". How is knowledge of everything "subject" to the distinction between good and evil, on your account? This sounds interesting. — Cabbage Farmer
Genesis is saying that defiance of the will of God was the original sin. It's granting that there is free will, but the highest good is to turn away from it. Eve's side story is a condemnation of curiosity.
So the story is an ultra-conservative warning against freedom and curiosity. If you consider the conditions of the early Iron Age in which it formed, it makes sense. — frank
But given that we all live in oligarchies and do not have any working democracies in the world that I know of, does it matter what we think of democracy other than the facts that there are none? — Gnostic Christian Bishop
Individually, I disagree.
We have an ethical problem. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
What makes Christianity work for millions of people is moral stories bring out the best in us. They help us understand a good way to respond to problems, and when this thinking becomes a habit more things seem to well for us. A Christian thanks God for the blessing. A secular person will realize the cause and effect. — Athena
That morality is essential on a national level. Democracy is about all of us working together for a better life that we all share. — Athena
Being moral is about the whole nation and our children's future. — Athena
where do you get off comparing the two? — Nobeernolife
Well, thank you for setting things straight. I am not that interested in the popes, so I will bow out. But when it comes to being our own god, I don't think that is what a person wants. That is a lot of responsibility and I think we avoid responsibility when we can. :lol: — Athena
No, they do not. The description of God figure is completely different, and if you think of islam as a sort of Arab Christianity all you do is demonstrate that you have not researched the issue at all. Zip, zilch, nada. — Nobeernolife
I am pretty ignorant of the Greek conflict with Persians. I only know the Greek point of view and a Persian informed me that I am not well informed. I am a little reluctant to talk about something I know almost nothing about. I don't know if we can the Persian point of view in the west? However, if you or anyone else wants to explore the question, I will pull out a book and see what I can learn. — Athena
Indeed, but look at what we have instead.
https://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2 — Gnostic Christian Bishop
I was just doing cultural psychology (like Nietzsche or Freud). We can look at goodness as something reached for, something I want, or my society collectively wants. That implies that I can look at a society, discern what they hold to be good, and discover what they think they're missing: what they would have to have to become perfect, healed, satisfied, and complete.
If the Greeks held freedom as a high good, then why? What was threatening their freedom such that they needed to reach for it: to pursue it and protect it? Was it an external threat? Or was it internal? Was it internal, but seen as external?
That's the kind of question I take into studying history. It's fun. — frank
I've heard that some scholars interpret the knowledge in the story to mean "knowledge of everything". How is knowledge of everything "subject" to the distinction between good and evil, on your account? This sounds interesting. — Cabbage Farmer
Isn't this a rather common version of the story you're referring to -- that it's the fruit they were told not to eat? — Cabbage Farmer
Perhaps you should stop trying to argue against intentions that don't exist. Such unseemly behavior for a Bishop! — Cabbage Farmer
Why do you suggest I'm trying to "downgrade the command to a mere fruit"? — Cabbage Farmer
Do claim to know the intention of Yahweh in the myth? Isn't it possible that he set it up as a sort of trial or obstacle -- somewhat as philosophers have sought to resolve the "problem of evil" by explaining the existence of moral wrongdoing as a consequence of free will? — Cabbage Farmer
Is there only one Christian ideology, on your account?
What does it say about letting God think for us? — Cabbage Farmer
On the other hand, it seems this custom may be at least as prevalent today as it was one to five thousand years ago, so I'm not sure what historical point you're making. — Cabbage Farmer
Out of all the cultural forms that existed alongside it thousands of years ago, the Hebrew form is the only one that survived. That tells you that the message: "Conform!" was not embraced out of fear, but out of a deep abiding love (probably for ancestors to some extent). — frank
I think I have already said the philosophers of Athens asked, how do the immortals resolve their differences? The answer was, they argue until they have a consensus on the best reasoning. When this reasoning is applied to government it is democracy. — Athena
I don't like the word freedom because that implies a lack of limits and that leads to big trouble! I prefer the words "liberty" and "justice" because they imply knowledge of desirable limits and avoiding trouble. Democracy needs to be a self-correcting system, and that is not what religion is. — Athena
“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (Gen. 3:5). — Gnostic Christian Bishop
People want to be their own gods. Is that good or evil? — Gnostic Christian Bishop
If Jesus wants us to know of good and evil, as a prerequisite to being born again as his brethren, it goes well with Jesus’ prediction as quoted above.
That may be why Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
Does a chimp know the difference between good and evil? Do humans behave like chimps? Do chimps think like humans? We are as God made us and we were not made of mud. :lol: — Athena
Genesis is saying that defiance of the will of God was the original sin. — frank
In general, I don't think we are thinking things through very well. That can bring even Rome down. — Athena
First question: why does the quote refer to [many] gods rather than [one] god? — TheMadFool
Second question: why is knowledge of good and evil the exclusive purview of god? — TheMadFool
You put me in a difficult position. That is something my Muslim friends never did. I never felt I had to defend myself from their personal attacks. And the way you addressed Frank is shocking. If there is anything nice about you, it is not showing. — Athena
Christianity may work for millions, as you say, but it does not work to bring equality for all as they continue to preach their homophobic and misogynous teachings that victimises more millions than what it works for.
I think that the sooner we rid ourselves of the religions that are inferior in law to secular law, Christianity and Islam leading that list, the sooner all will have equality. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
Watch this little skit and come back and tell us what major differences you see between right wing Christians and right wing Muslims. You might think that because Muslims kill their apostates, they are better than Christians, but remember that when Christian Jesus returns, he is to kill all apostate. — Gnostic Christian Bishop
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