I assume that state governors don’t have access to the intelligence resources that the White House has, for one thing. Also, the criticism isn’t just about not closing things down.

I assume that state governors don’t have access to the intelligence resources that the White House has, for one thing. — praxis

Its a pandemic not a drone bombing. :lol:

I assume wrongly then?

I was just being a smart ass.

Brief report on the situation in India: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhNKZOHJ74

2 days ago:

You're forgetting the key elements that the left is to blame for the shutdown (somehow the left is in charge and setting policy in the white house), that Trump has had essentially no agency through the entire ordeal, poor thing — boethius

Today:

If Trump doesn't have the power to reopen schools, businesses, state and local govt. offices, etc. then did he really have the power to close them down? If it is the power of the governors to reopen their states, then wasn't it their responsibility to close them? If so, then why are people blaming Trump for not closing things down sooner? — Harry Hindu

Amazing.

He can either choose to accept that or reject it, so he'll probably do both. — Baden

There's a difference between asking someone to choose either A or B versus A or not A. The former permits both choices, the latter only one, but not because of the "either," but because of the contradiction in choosing both to be and not to be.

As to the question, do I want bourbon or vodka, the answer is yes.

As more info is revealed, it is becoming increasingly difficult to discount the idea that the pandemic is the result of a lab accident in Wuhan, and the subsequent CCP coverup. This could be China’s Chernobyl. There is more circumstantial evidence for this than there is for the conventional wisdom that it began in a wet market.

State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses

In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.

What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

If Trump doesn't have the power to reopen schools, businesses, state and local govt. offices, etc. then did he really have the power to close them down? If it is the power of the governors to reopen their states, then wasn't it their responsibility to close them? If so, then why are people blaming Trump for not closing things down sooner? — Harry Hindu

Different states have imposed different restrictions. Where I live, the first thing to happen was the county closed the local schools. The city where I lived then closed down restaurants. A number of other cities within my county began doing the same thing. Then the county closed everything down, but it did it by joint resolution of all the cities within the county. Then other counties did the same. Finally the governor shut everything down throughout the state. Interestingly, the state preempted the cities and the state reopened the beaches, which pissed off the mayors along the coast who wanted them closed.

Trump can close down the interstate travel, but I saw in Florida (and other places), they're not letting people cross state lines without good reason. I doubt that's Constitutional, but whatever.

I suspect that Trump could take full charge and declare a national emergency where he would have the right to close the schools and all the stores and issue a complete lock down. The truth is that that Americans really aren't that rebellious of a group and if the President issued a decree that everything close, it's very doubtful some local government would open up for business and Johnny would board the school bus and go off to school.

But, as to your question, if I hold a beer fest in the park with 500 of my friends, I will be charged with a state crime. I will not be charged with a federal offense. The states are the ones imposing these restrictions. But Trump could have closed the country down by just saying it must be done, as he has that level of influence, regardless of whether his decree was made enforceable by federal marshals.

I was just being a smart ass. — frank

Bungling a drone strike could cost a handful of lives. Bungling the National response to a pandemic could costs tens of thousands.

Feeding 12 chickens one bucket of food per day will give you a dozen small eggs.

Feeding the same amount to an ostrich will give you one giant egg.

Tens of thousands of American lives is like chicken feed to you?! What a monster. :scream:

Are you saying that ostriches don't make giant eggs?

According to this study, "the key metric for the success of social distancing is whether critical care capacities are exceeded", and in order to avoid this, "prolonged or intermittent social distancing may be necessary into 2022". Assuming their models are accurate, and assuming the economy will suffer under such conditions, without a vaccine or "herd immunity" the lockdown approach appears to be unsustainable.

Abstract
It is urgent to understand the future of severe acute respiratory syndrome–coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission. We used estimates of seasonality, immunity, and cross-immunity for betacoronaviruses OC43 and HKU1 from time series data from the USA to inform a model of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. We projected that recurrent wintertime outbreaks of SARS-CoV-2 will probably occur after the initial, most severe pandemic wave. Absent other interventions, a key metric for the success of social distancing is whether critical care capacities are exceeded. To avoid this, prolonged or intermittent social distancing may be necessary into 2022. Additional interventions, including expanded critical care capacity and an effective therapeutic, would improve the success of intermittent distancing and hasten the acquisition of herd immunity. Longitudinal serological studies are urgently needed to determine the extent and duration of immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Even in the event of apparent elimination, SARS-CoV-2 surveillance should be maintained since a resurgence in contagion could be possible as late as 2024.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/14/science.abb5793

We're going to have to social distance until we get a vaccine. The virus is not going to put up the white flag and leave us alone. That shouldn't be news to anyone at this point. Lockdowns are just one form of enforced social distancing and they'll be ending well before social distancing does. I don't think anyone is arguing we should continue those indefinitely. Mandatory mask-wearing orders are being introduced already and I expect that's the way we'll go: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/coronavirus/mandatory-face-mask-order-to-go-into-effect-in-prince-georges-county

Where I live proper masks are difficult to come by, but I think the efficacy of masks and even goggles is obvious at this point. But also, as the study suggests, we need innovation, therapeutics, and any way to help our flailing healthcare systems. I just worry the lockdown can only stifle such efforts.

. Mandatory mask-wearing orders are being introduced already and I expect that's the way we'll go — Baden

They are actually starting to advise putting plastic bags over your head where I live. I'd strongly encourage you to get ahead of the curve where you live and start doing that so that you're not caught with your pants down again.

The surest way to kill the parasite is to kill the host. Don't overthink that, just go get yourself a head bag. Maybe even double bag it.

They are actually starting to advise putting plastic bags over your head where I live — Hanover

In your case, you may have misheard "paper bag".

Though I guarantee if you marketed MAGA plastic bags, you could solve most of your country's problems in a few short minutes per user. :flower:

go get yourself a head bag — Hanover

0:18

Are you saying that ostriches don't make giant eggs? — frank

No. We should probably verify this with your mom though.

I was dating this girl who thought my lackadaisical attitude during this coronavirus thing was irresponsible and evidence of incompatibility. I told her I found her judgmental and harsh, and that I'd stay with her even if she robbed a liquor store, which was something I found worse than a failure to take the coronavirus thing more seriously. While I thought that persuasive in showing how my commitment would hypothetically exceed hers, she apparently did not. So, after some discussion, we stopped discussing, and now I've got to go through this quarantine alone, which is not at all what I think I should expect during a quarantine.

My point here is that there all sorts of lesser but real casualties that this thing has brought about. I can't help but to feel sad for her, now having to be without me.

No. We should probably verify this with your mom though. — praxis

Are you saying that @frank's mom is an ostrich? Frank, is that true?

No. We should probably verify this with your mom though. — praxis

Okay we are officially off course here with your Momma jokes :joke:
Having said that: you don't necessarily get 12 eggs from 12 chickens. Lots of chickens will lay lots of eggs and others are just as content to lay on golf balls. True story.
Another take on eggs and chickens: do to odd circumstances we had to clean out a barn and there were lots of eggs but some were old. We tossed out the eggs in a wheel barrow of horse muck and when we emptied the barrow a couple days later, we found a couple of dead chics. The heat outside and the shade of the compost was the perfect incubator. I just wish we would have known. :broken: After that any unknown eggs were fed to the pigs and chickens, and yes chickens eat their eggs if you break them.
One last total distracted fact but relevant all the same: an dozen chicken eggs is about the same quantity as what you get out of an Ostrich or Emu egg. The Gold Gilded Egg that is so valuable is the size of an Ostrich egg.

My point here is that there all sorts of lesser but real casualties that this thing has brought about. I can't help but to feel sad for her, now having to be without me. — Hanover

I'm saddened to hear such of such intolerance but I'm not surprised. Having been at home for the last 23 yrs raising the family and now in virtual school has created a work day that is 28/9/366 with my partner.

We have space but I feel an undercurrent that is unsettling. I know that divorce rates are up, suicide is up, spousal and domestic abuse is up as is the use of any vice in the extreme whether that is good, drugs, sex or the loss of any of the three.

Touch deprevation is a real thing and something to be aware of. Virtual hugs to you

It's a false dichotomy only if I presented it as a dichotomy. Purely hypothetically, you might say that if I support Trump, I'm either (1) a mindless Republican, or (2) drunk. There's nothing in that sentence that says I can't be both. — Hanover

I'd stay with her even if she robbed a liquor store — Hanover

I hold a beer fest in the park with 500 of my friends — Hanover

As to the question, do I want bourbon or vodka, the answer is yes. — Hanover

Are you trying to to tell is that you're an alcoholic?

Touch deprevation is a real thing and something to be aware of. Virtual hugs to you — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Doing a collection now for @Hanover's paper bag. Might help his love life. Please give generously. :pray:

One last total distracted fact but relevant all the same: an dozen chicken eggs is about the same quantity as what you get out of an Ostrich or Emu egg. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Google says two dozen. No Ostriches on the ranch, I take it?

Trump has announced that he will withhold funding for WHO, because they're to blame for the pandemic's spread to the US.

I have no doubt that WHO's processes could have been better - maybe much better. But the appropriate thing to do is to learn from the mistakes, and develop processes to avoid repeating them. Every government entity in the US (federal, state, and local) and in the world should do the same thing.

Being serious about any topic seems to me to require at least three deliberate actions or stances to take wrt to the topic.

1) To learn about it, or be receptive to competent opinion that in itself seems reasonable and knowledgeable.

2) To act in accord with that knowledge, or what seems knowledgeable, wrt & etc.

3) To treat the topic with appropriate respect.

Corollary: To avoid ignorance and applied ignorance (i.e., stupidity), and to try not to be either.

What would you call people who accept and more-or-less operate in accordance with these? I call them smart and reasonable.

It becomes quickly apparent that high achievement in many areas is no guarantee the individual is either smart or reasonable, and that includes Trump, the governor of Florida and some other governors, and others too numerous to name, including some here on TPF. And so forth around the planet.

And there's another category: those who arguably know better, but for their own reasons promulgate nonsense, often harmful sometimes dangerous. Nos4 @NOS4A2 comes to mind as one in that category. And of Trump, or nos4 or any of their ilk, it's important even to the level of survival to understand that whatever comes from them is in itself both meaningless and garbage. Only appropriate for being disposed of as expeditiously as possible.

For if the lies were themselves indictable, the right place for the liars would be Dante's ninth circle, where betrayers spend a frozen eternity with Cain, Judas, and a few others..