Eh, let's not make it a cartoon version. — Xtrix
And we who are opposed to Trump, recognizing that he is a sociopath and, more importantly, runs an administration that is destroying the prospects of future human life, have what kind of responsibility? None? "Indirect"? — Xtrix
None indeed. — Benkei
Confronted with two choices that are not materially different — Benkei
because the system is rigged in such a way you'll never be offered a meaningful choice means you don't have actual agency. — Benkei
It's not about Trump or Biden though, it's Republican and Democratic. I guess it takes a view from outside the USA to realise how marginal those differences are. — Benkei
I think the problem with the people on this thread is that they don't accept X. But that's exactly what I want to discuss, because I think there's overwhelming evidence supporting it which comes from science. — Xtrix
To a degree, I agree. If Trump really were about to, let's say, start a nuclear war then there would be an argument that just about anyone with a pulse would be a better option and in order to avert that disaster, they should vote for them. But I just don't see that level of difference. — Baden
I see a regular GOP vs Dem election with the GOP candidate being a horrible boor with zero morals peddling shitty policies, but not one likely to start a war and not one capable of single-handedly destroying the planet (or America) in any other way. — Baden
I don't really think you believe this. — Xtrix
Compare them on healthcare. Compare them on climate change. Etc. — Xtrix
I've only been arguing against the idea that progressives are obligated to give the Democrats their vote simply because Trump is a bad candidate. I see that as a form of blackmail. Nobody owes their vote to anyone. It has to be earned. — Baden
Compare them on healthcare. Compare them on climate change. Etc.
— Xtrix
I have. Matters of degrees. — Benkei
Obama did fuck all for the environment, Trump is worse but the endgame is the same. — Benkei
Biden wants to have a committee, which is just another word for "doing nothing". What major overhaul has Trump affected for healthcare? Trump wants to build a wall? Who expulsed the most immigrants? Obama. — Benkei
What I owe the country and the future of the planet is to remove the cancer from office. The next step -- and this is important -- is to push the Biden administration to the extreme. — Xtrix
If he doesn't listen at all, then perhaps the next election vote in a (sensible) Republican out of spite. But the Republicans are now so dangerous that I can't see myself voting for them unless there's a major overhaul, particularly about science. — Xtrix
I don't trust Biden as far as I can throw him. I know he really serves the money. Great that you want Trump gone. There may be a whole lot of people just like you. There are people like me, too, who none of you respect and evidently just don't need. — neonspectraltoast
I'm not voting, and I don't feel I matter enough to help determine who wins. Your idea of appealing to people like me is looking down on us and trying to shame us into voting. And for what? Biden? I can't relate to that clown. — neonspectraltoast
Biden or Trump, you get the same society. — neonspectraltoast
It's funny, this attempt to foist responsibility upon people who literally have no obligation or responsibility is indistinguishable from the kind of gaslight logic of abusive partners - 'if you dont do this [forced choice] you're going to be responsible for [violent outcome]'. And when push comes to shove they'll say: "OK, it's not like you're making me beat you, but it's your fault really'. Just logic and reason really.
These people who think a lowest common denominator democracy - vote for this peice of shit because he's not this other, slightly bigger piece of shit - is a democracy worth having are not 'progressive'. They're the sonderkommandos of an irredeemable system. — StreetlightX
Do I get skin-in-the-game points if I mention that I've got a Chinese background? What should it even fucking matter? A racist cunt-bag is a racist cunt-bag is a Biden
What does being an australian with a chinese background have to do with US elections
I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of someone with a real issue that will be voted on. — csalisbury
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