Ultimately, it just amounts to: 'That problem you have? Just don't have it anymore.' — The Great Whatever
I don't think philosophy should be in the business of giving self-help advice and maxims about how to live. It should be in the business of scrutinizing ideas and exposing errors. Bad 'ethical' positions are, if you like, errors. — The Great Whatever
Crude, but yes, that's basically it. Your alternative ultimately amounts to... what? 'That problem you have? Do nothing about it'. If you do answer, it's only fair to answer in the same manner in which you've treated stoicism, so please, no sophistication or charity, and it should consist of a short sentence. — Sapientia
There is a problem, hence there is an error. The problem, in the example, is excessive grieving, which is detrimental. The error would be to do nothing about it, as the problem would persist; and the solution would be to move on - gradually, and with assistance, if need be - thereby ultimately ceasing to grieve in excess. — Sapientia
I don't think there is just an answer to what people in general should do in the face of suffering. It's not the right question to be asking. — The Great Whatever
What makes the grieving 'excessive?' Seneca's answer is, because animals don't grieve that much. I'm guessing you don't have anything more insightful than that. — The Great Whatever
Suffering, to the extent that it's detrimental, should be avoided and minimised, should it not? If not, why? And if it's not the right question, then what is? — Sapientia
No more insightful, but just as evident: too much grieving can be detrimental. Excessive grieving can mean not just grieving more than normal, as Seneca's answer (as paraphrased by you) implies, but also grieving to an extent whereby it has a detrimental effect on that person's life and the lives of others, such as close family and friends. — Sapientia
Asking whether suffering should be minimized is not the same as asking what should be done in the face of it. — The Great Whatever
Usually if you're suffering, it's 'too late.' In the face of suffering, I'm not sure what the question of what one 'can do' about it makes much sense. We can perhaps live through it, embody it in art, and so on, but what happens, what befalls you, for that very reason can't be avoided once it's on you. You can of course minimize future suffering, but that's not the same as doing something 'in the face of it.' — The Great Whatever
Presumably, however, we could invent technology that could get rid of the aspect of pain that we find uncomfortable and replace it with simply a notification. Evolution did not lead to us having to ability to consciously control our pain receptors, but with the help of technology we might be able to. — darthbarracuda
If for example you consider boredom, loneliness, hopelessness, embarrassment, and so on pains, then you would have to rewire our bodily structure so fundamentally that our existential structures would be completely revamped, to the extent that we might not be able to even recognize them or from our present perspective even imagine them. — The Great Whatever
Is it even possible for a feeling creature not to suffer? — The Great Whatever
Or, you could look at these pains like I do, and realize that they are self-caused — darthbarracuda
Additionally, I do not think these kinds of pains are anywhere near as bad as, say, being stabbed in the heart. They may cause a person a bit of angst, anxiety, and some depression, but don't usually give a person overwhelmingly terrible suffering. And the times that it does give a person overwhelmingly terrible suffering (such as extreme anxiety, something I have experience with), there is medication and therapy that helps tremendously. — darthbarracuda
But this just isn't true. That would impute extraordinary powers of control over me. — The Great Whatever
Psychological pain is a very real phenomenon, but ultimately it derives from the person, not the environment. — darthbarracuda
I don't see any reason to believe this. Sounds like New Age crap. — The Great Whatever
You sure, man? I mean, you've never met someone who wallows in their own bullshit to the point of hurting themselves far beyond the original stimulus? I'm not saying that this applies to all psychological pain, but some of it, surely. — Pneumenon
If you dig down to what you mean by 'self-infliction' of these pains, you will find you don't know what you're talking about. — The Great Whatever
Well, yeah, if you're gonna deny free will, then there's no reason to think of anything as being self-inflicted. On the other hand, a "pull-yourself-together-you-sonofabitch" speech might cause a person to stop inflicting such pain on themselves.
(come to think of it, could free will be a useful delusion? I mean, believing that there's no free will might give me a means to rationalize away the fact that I'm wallowing, thus allowing me to wallow even more, even if I'm right) — Pneumenon
Operative word in my second sentence: "might." — Pneumenon
This seems to work on problems that perhaps little children have (losing a game, not getting a toy). It would be inappropriate in almost all adult circumstances. — schopenhauer1
You have never met someone who had something bad happen to them, and was helped in their situation by being told to get over it? — Pneumenon
Another thing that helps is real trouble. If you're busy being internally maudlin about someone breaking up with you two years ago, a few minutes of genuine headache can cure those ills immediately — Pneumenon
Evidently, you have some assumptions about adults, given your reference to "adult circumstances." You were the one that brought up adulthood, not me. — Pneumenon
I really don't think the position that all psychological pain is self-inflicted deserves serious response. So no, I think a handwave is fine. — The Great Whatever
I mean, you've never met someone who wallows in their own bullshit to the point of hurting themselves far beyond the original stimulus? — Pneumenon
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.