Depression is a luxury — Emmanuel

Indeed, times of prosperity and peace tend to make the masses bored. When we don't have any external problems to get our heads on, we create them internally. Depression is one of these problems...

Hi Gus,yes thanks, it's the one that chose me... can you elaborate on those other problems?
Anger maybe? Which ones did you have to deal with, and which ones are you aware of?

I'm just wondering about the implications of the OP's title: Depression is a luxury of the time. I sense in it a decidedly negative evaluation of people who suffer from melancholy, as if to say that depressed people have time to spare, "overthinking" their circumstances whatever they be and fall into despair.

It appears to be a reasonable point of view. After all, time has a premium on it and people take great pains to spend their time in a productive way. Surely, if people are depressed it indicates such people have free time to be gloomy and sorrowful.

However, by the same token, it seems people who aren't depressed are like that only because they have a busy schedule with no time slots available to shed a tear of two in sadness. This, to me, raises the question whether all the activities we engage in are nothing more than distractions with the sole purpose of hiding from view what is the painful truth? One glance at the painful truth about our world - poverty, starvation, disease, war crimes, genocide, and so on - and even out-and-out stoics will find it impossible to keep their legendary equanimity.

can you elaborate on those other problems?
Anger maybe? Which ones did you have to deal with, and which ones are you aware of? — Emmanuel

Humanity is composed of a will to power, a will to have some question to be asked, and eventually, to be answered, it needs the search, the purpose. And that purpose is much more easily found externally, in others, in other societies, in other lands, etc ... The problem in question is that, in moments of a civilizatory apex like ours, the external searches, or have already been made completely unnecessary by the wealth implanted in society - here I refer to the West, the new Imperium Romanum - or are very far from being conquered - such as space exploration, for example -.

Faced with this situation where the external factors of purpose are unreachable, Man gets lost, his ground collapses, and he himself begins to create and develop problems, to make things more bureaucratic, problems that would not be "cured" because they do not really exist. Depression, nihilism, political extremism, ethical extremism, tare for malice - things that we knew to be wrong, however we do them of our own free will - etc ...

These and other problems eventually lead to the end of such a society as we know it. I have as an example, the history of the roman civilization, however, because it is another very long paragraph, I will let you decide whether or not you want to continue to argue.

However, it is true that people with more material goods report more depression. And then, of course there is teenage angst. I do agree, that our society today is like Roman society in the time of the early Cesars. Bread and circuses, cater to the lowest.

I do agree, that our society today is like Roman society in the time of the early Cesars. Bread and circuses, cater to the lowest. — Becky

I would say that we are more in the time of the Principatus - From the first Emperor, Augustus, to the death of Marcus Aurelius -. The Pax Romana is our "Pax Americana". The only difference between the roman world and our world, is the scale of it.

Your experience is not similar to the people I have seen being overcome by depression. You advise developing a thicker upper lip. The assumption that everyone who suffers within it is not working hard to become free of it is to close your eyes in the presence of that suffering.

And that is okay. You can choose to share suffering or not. But if you decline to do so, resist the impulse to explain what it is.

Thanks for developing. It's important to note that there are some very simple human lives where purpose is rich. I know some people in the Philippines who have fulfilling jobs paid 200 $ a month, that in turn feed there families...
If we are indeed in the apex of civilization, this would be because we will run out of the energy that fuels today's growth, and we won't find solutions...
But even in that case, it could be actually more easy to find meaning in the going back to a large population growing food, an urban exodus.
There are always solutions, man is adaptable.
The variety of sovereign nations, will each imagine their own solutions to that.
All these plagues of the human Philosophy you mentioned, have been born within our search for truth, I hope for our sake that they are tamed. And I truly think that society is guided and that it will find it's truth that will fit our ideals as a group.


Thank you, It's true it's scary to see some of the accounts being massively followed, showing little interest in things of real value. The meaning which should be found in our responsibilities for ourselves, our neighbor and the planet can be lost or not even present... I think these people suffer the consequence of their ignorance.


Thanks, Depression is a sickness it is an abnormal state that will render a man inefficient for survival, it's a paralyzing abnormal state.
Yes It can be a noble response to the harsh realities of societies. Certainly the problem starts with problems in society itself, that give birth to it. Schizophrenia is born and is a response to a sick society, full of codes that are used yet carry little good in them.
But the normal healthy state of the mind, which allows a man to first feed himself, is to be fought for. I'm looking into myself writing what I need to hear to get out of this state, which in truth is like shooting yourself in the leg, very dumb... So there are cures, and finding productive activity is a source of meaning that will make a man satisfied with his life, and that's all that matters.

A journey through depression, is about learning to tame your demons.
The harsh realities of life are facts to be dealt with, to be accepted.
The harsh realities of life are to be embraced.

In life we all will get hit and fall, but it's not about that.
It is about getting up fast, faster...
Making the best of today.

Dealing with defeat calmly and with a clear mind, is a mark of strength, it can be innate but it can also be learned. — Emmanuel

Yada yada yada.

There's the blues, which billions of people experience and overcome regularly, and then there is depression which leads to mental dysfunction. DYSFUNCTION: The brain is no longer working properly.

People who are really depressed, not merely 'blue', are beyond endorsing and acting upon up-beat, positive-sounding, get-up-and-go preaching. They can not "just snap out of it". If they could, believe me, they would.

Depression is no luxury item.

I'm sorry but your wrong they can and they should.

How do you know this?

Thanks Valentinus, I'm a recovering if not recovered paranoid schizophrenic, so I can attest of some of the improvements I have made for myself.

Are you suggesting there is mutual exclusivity between encouraging people to help themselves and accepting that not all conditions can be addressed as a lack of self determination?

I'm not saying it's their fault. I'm just saying anyone can help themselves. Of course we can help each other, that's a bit what I'm trying to do. But in the end you can never rob someone of an achievement. We are each responsible, therefor merit our success or failure.

That amounts to arguing there is such a mutual exclusivity as I described.

Regardless of the question of what is happening to people, there is the problem of assuming a premise that is the result of your argument. But there is no satisfaction in observing that sort of thing. I just bored myself by noticing that element.

You are not seeing something that exists. Any success you may have in arguing that it does not exist won't change the perception of those who have to look at it. You put that limit upon yourself, not upon other people.

This subject is about the question do we have a choice or are we gouverned by the events that happen to us?
I choose the first one. And I do believe our choices matter. Reality and views are different for each of us, and our choices matter. Our opinions matter.
I don’t think encouraging someone and say it’s the worlds fault you failed is a good thing.
We can be empathic and take the time to understand someones personal problems, for there are certainly reasons to all ailments. Someone taking the time to understand a personal case, and showing interest in a friends problems means there is no mutual exclusivity.
But again we are responsible, thats what I chose to believe.

What is problematic in your observations is the suggestion that every description of a condition is a surrender of personal responsibility. The people making those observations did not put it that way.

There's the blues, which billions of people experience and overcome regularly, and then there is depression which leads to mental dysfunction. DYSFUNCTION: The brain is no longer working properly.

People who are really depressed, not merely 'blue', are beyond endorsing and acting upon up-beat, positive-sounding, get-up-and-go preaching. They can not "just snap out of it". If they could, believe me, they would.

Depression is no luxury item. — Bitter Crank

There you go again, casting pearls ... :smirk:

I’m saying personal responsibility is the only way out. It takes time. We are all born clueless of the world and need to figure everything out and it takes some people longer than others.

Descartes put it well
He believed that even the weakest minds can learn to govern themselves.

But you are right, choice is limited, Tolkien said, we chose what to do with the time that is given to us.
If I lose a limb in an accident, my life will change, it doesn’t mean I am not responsible.

We all have to find our own way out. Or not. We all throw the dice.
But I object to your thesis that depression is a choice in that simple fashion.

At this point in the argument, I have to ask, why do you care? There are people experiencing things you do not. Why do you care if their suffering is necessary or not?

How does judgment about their experiences relate to yours? Everybody has to like the idea of choices versus just taking what they get but some portion of that has to be a response to phenomena.

There is this real world. I am more interested in an interesting insight in to what is going on than demands that it be one way or another.

I've had depression (diagnosed, treated with meds) for...35 years or so. I worked diligently at helping myself, and achieved some beneficial results. However, I couldn't just "not be depressed". Depression reduced my happiness, work performance, relationship success, and so forth. There were deficits from depression itself, and from medication.

About 10 years ago, after forced retirement, after the death of my spouse and a period of grieving, I did--through no willful effort on my part, "snap out of it". Why, I don't know. I'm not looking this enormously valuable gift horse in the mouth.º. My mental functioning, level of happiness, sleep patterns, energy -- all are much improved, adjusting for age (73). I have read more in the last 10 years than in the previous 30, and with pleasure.

Something in my body changed; I do not know what it was. Depression arrived in 35 years ago in very much the same way: I just stopped functioning well in a variety of ways, and despite medication and psychotherapy, I didn't get better.

ºLooking a gift horse in the mouth means examining it to see what is wrong with it, that somebody would give it away. In the future when we have given up our wasteful ways and no longer travel everywhere in heavy metal vehicles, this expression about horses might become current again.

Thanks, I'm sorry for your loss, and I'm happy that you have found yourself again.

Reading has helped me, and I have been reading more as I grew older, with pleasure I chose to pick up new books when I'm ready for them. A lot of what I write is from those books, either responses to them or agreement in my own personal angle.
I guess my views don't fit your experience. But just let me say this, I am the captain of my ship, and I guide it where it goes.
I used to accuse my parents, my whole world for all my ailments, and as I have adapted my mind to take more and more responsibility for my condition, I have found more and more feelings of control, feelings of being able to master my destiny.

How we see the world, our negative thoughts about it, in my experience can be improved through conscious effort and will power.

How we see the world, our negative thoughts about it, in my experience can be improved through conscious effort and will power. — Emmanuel

Yes, I think that is true; most people are not clinically depressed, and managing one's thoughts about the world is a good idea. Conscious effort is required. And diligence, and good habits of mind.

Many years ago, when I was just out of college, an old professor I liked who was going through difficult personal problems, said "We have to be careful about the kind of language we use when we talk to ourselves." One can certainly talk one's self into a pretty unappealing defeatist position, and conversely, one can promote positive views.

Thanks, Depression is a sickness it is an abnormal state that will render a man inefficient for survival, it's a paralyzing abnormal state.
Yes It can be a noble response to the harsh realities of societies. Certainly the problem starts with problems in society itself, that give birth to it. Schizophrenia is born and is a response to a sick society, full of codes that are used yet carry little good in them.
But the normal healthy state of the mind, which allows a man to first feed himself, is to be fought for. I'm looking into myself writing what I need to hear to get out of this state, which in truth is like shooting yourself in the leg, very dumb... So there are cures, and finding productive activity is a source of meaning that will make a man satisfied with his life, and that's all that matters. — Emmanuel

Well, you seem to be of the opinion that depression is a sickness, an illness that we need to cure. Yet, when you spoke of schizophrenia you seem to consider it a reasonable psychological reaction to the way our world operates - the "harsh realities" you mentioned.

There's a symptom of mental illness in psychiatry called paradoxical reaction - a condition in which, as is pertinent to this discussion, you laugh when you're supposed to be crying. Do you think a careful survey of the world - how inhospitable it is to our wellbeing - is conducive to anything other than melancholy?

Yes life is beautiful

Yes life is beautiful — Emmanuel

Life is beautiful but only to some. Others have to make do with the living in the seedier side of town where even mothers are for sale.

That isn’t ‘depression’ it’s just dealing with the hardships of life. Certain environmental factors can trigger depression and some people are much more susceptible to depression than others - it’s a physiological disposition for some.

I guess you could argue that today allows the medically depressed more room to maneuver in than previously - where ‘the mad’ would be locked up alongside ‘criminals’.

Yes. We have too much time to think about our misfortunes and underachievements.