The state promotes and nurtures the ideal citizen. — TheMadFool
I'm sure there aren't any people out there who would want things to be different; — TheMadFool
Too, the obese, the elderly, and other vulnerable groups are to be kept under lockdown for their own safety — TheMadFool
This seems to be an increasingly acceptable idea, that the state knows what’s good for you and will impose themselves on you to achieve that. Specifically I’m thinking of those In their seventies and over in relation to the virus who are deemed incapable of making the “right” choice.
You also said “ Ideal citizens - the infected especially - would choose to remain under lockdown”, and the state assumes this to be what people are thinking. So then we have the state deciding, or assuming, what people want.
All in all your position would be that the state comes before the individual. You said you see no conflict between the individual and the state. But is that the case, or is it only the case if the individual accepts the idea of the state coming first, that the individual serves the state. I don’t mean that in a totalitarian way. I’m interested to see how people think we should shape society. As I said, and others have suggested, the idea of the individual is a relatively new idea. — Brett
Were it that we all agreed on what the ideal citizen should be, I see no cause for trouble at all. — TheMadFool
But who determines the ideal citizen? — Brett
But who determines the ideal citizen?
— Brett
To answer your question directly, we do. — TheMadFool
That said, what I would like to draw your attention to is the way you've made a distinction between the state and the individual. I find this to be a distinction without a difference — TheMadFool
That said, what I would like to draw your attention to is the way you've made a distinction between the state and the individual. I find this to be a distinction without a difference: it treats the state as having a life of its own and, like individuals, capable of having an agenda that might on occasion oppose individual rights. — TheMadFool
While I do accept that many times in history the state has been at loggerheads with its people, I consider these to be cases when either the state or the people have failed to keep their end of the bargain. — TheMadFool
Individuals are given rights by the state, not because these rights constitute sacred eternal truths but because it’s the best practical guarantee that in normal circumstances the state will not injure the individuals it is there to protect. — Congau
then community precedes and makes possible individuality. — Pantagruel
these (struggles) all seem to occur when individual rights have been denied by the state or individuals have overstepped the bounds they themselves endorsed and authorized the state to keep a watch on. — TheMadFool
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.