Good. Just be aware that many who do say that pave the way for doing so by saying things like you've been saying.
The problem is the wrong kinds of attention... not who's being paid the wrong kinds of attention to and for whatever reason those attention givers rationalize their own actions to themselves...
"Nice ass!"
"Fuck off you jerk!"
"What else did she expect wearing clothes that exposed her butt cheeks?" — creativesoul
Women aren't stupid. They are very intuitive with regard to other people — Gregory
"Women are crazy because men are stupid" about women, Thus Spoke George Carlin! — 180 Proof
What's wrong with that? Just because you - many (most?) hetero-males - can't handle that doesn't entail it's wrong or that a woman shouldn't have her dawgs & her dignity too. :smirk: — 180 Proof
'We're free to objectify ourselves without licensing you to objectify us.'
(Re: Coopting social-sexual alienation ... the way we blacks coopt racial slurs in order to reclaim (some of the) power to hurt from racists). — 180 Proof
I believe, from decades of observation of myself as well as other men, that the vaunted 'male ego' is fraught with trepidation whenever females assert their prerogatives or flaunt their double standards. — 180 Proof
We're free to objectify ourselves without licensing you to objectify us.' — 180 Proof
I don't understand women all that well. I see women railing against their objectification by men and yet the choices they make in their clothing suggests they wish to be treated as such. — TheMadFool
Make no mistake: Women do not clothe themselves for the purpose of pleasing men. Women choose their attire in direct competition with (and for) other women. It is precisely how we men choose our sports cars. We do it to impress other men, not for the purpose of attracting women.
So, please leave men out of the “The Objectification Of Women” equation. We’ve got nothing to do with it. — Hot Potato
If women (in general) were individualistic then asking them would be good advice. But women are flock creatures, who not only follow the trend found in magazines and adapted by their friends but will also tell you, "I dress for myself" which cannot be relied upon by any means what-so-ever. If you can be a silly-cone boob, fake eyelash, plucked and tattooed eyebrow, outrageously coloured eye-shadow, plastic fingernails, bright lipstick, apologist then help yourself. But tell me .... how do you justify high-heeled shoes that are (for all purposes) voluntary stumble-handicaps?Here’s a tip: before making generalised assumptions about a woman’s intention in wearing a low-cut neckline or a mini-skirt, you could take the time to ASK her if there’s a particular reason why she wore that outfit today - and then LISTEN to what she has to say. ..... — Possibility
If women (in general) were individualistic then asking them would be good advice. But women are flock creatures, who not only follow the trend found in magazines and adapted by their friends but will also tell you, "I dress for myself" which cannot be relied upon by any means what-so-ever. If you can be a silly-cone boob, fake eyelash, plucked and tattooed eyebrow, outrageously coloured eye-shadow, plastic fingernails, bright lipstick, apologist then help yourself. But tell me .... how do you justify high-heeled shoes that are (for all purposes) voluntary stumble-handicaps? — Hot Potato
If women (in general) were individualistic then asking them would be good advice. But women are flock creatures, who not only follow the trend found in magazines and adapted by their friends but will also tell you, "I dress for myself" which cannot be relied upon by any means what-so-ever. If you can be a silly-cone boob, fake eyelash, plucked and tattooed eyebrow, outrageously coloured eye-shadow, plastic fingernails, bright lipstick, apologist then help yourself. But tell me .... how do you justify high-heeled shoes that are (for all purposes) voluntary stumble-handicaps? — Hot Potato
this kind of behavior is aimed specifically at a certain range of "clients" - men whom they desire and wish to forge a relationship with — TheMadFool
So this is a firmer statement of intent than the original question, which asked to resolve a perceived discrepancy between how women describe their clothing choices and how some of those clothing choices suggest a more universal intent.
Out of interest, is this a binary phenomenon in your mind? When a woman wears a miniskirt to a bar, she's definitely straight and looking to get hit on by a man, correct? And if she wears a microskirt, same is surely true. If she wears a floor-length skirt, she wants to be left alone? What about a knee-length skirt? Is that still a deliberate provocation as it was to Cole Porter, or does that put her in the leave-me-alone category? Or is it a continuum: the shorter the skirt, the more the woman wants to be hit on, so a knee-length skirt denotes being open to a little flirtation with a small chance of sex, while a microskirt denotes an anybody-anytime-right-here-on-the-counter intent? — Kenosha Kid
If I must say something in addition to the above then it's this: I agree with 180 Proof that women have the right to do anything with their bodies - dress in whatever way they wish included - and being scantily clad is not an invitation for all men to hit on them but, on most occasions, this kind of behavior is aimed specifically at a certain range of "clients" - men whom they desire and wish to forge a relationship with. I sympathize with women because they're like snipers, aiming for a particular guy, but they're forced to blow their cover and so become targets of unwanted attention from the "enemy". — TheMadFool
Well, you don't seem to need my help; you've single-handedly come up with a near-scientific hypothesis on the issue. I appreciate your effort and ingenuity but, if you must know, I'd let time be the judge. I guess it's going to be a long wait... — TheMadFool
Having said that, a woman should be free to show some skin without being held responsible for ‘sending the wrong signals’ to men in whom she has no interest. If you hit on a woman and she brushes you off, the humiliation you might feel is not her fault for ‘putting it out there’. Even if her intention is to be noticed, she’s just as free to be choosy as if she had dressed modestly. — Possibility
Sure, there are people in this world who will harm others for no good reason — creativesoul
That root fact essentially being "less women will become sexually assaulted if dressed modestly and remain sober". If it is a fact and by communicating it to multiple people less women become victims of sexual assault... I ask you. Is that a service or a disservice?
There is no church state now. No moral guidelines for raising children. If people want to embrace the worst traits of humanity to get ahead they will. It is simply the world we live in. So again. Is such a statement that prevents countless sexual assaults a service or a disservice? — Outlander
you could take the time to ASK her if there’s a particular reason why she wore that outfit today - and then LISTEN to what she has to say. — Possibility
Schopenhauer who said without sex, men and women would hate each other(?). — 3017amen
People, especially young ones, mentally and otherwise, crave to be desired. Especially when one's early home life did not facilitate this. It's natural. — Outlander
if it is a fact, and I believe it is, that a woman wearing next to nothing and becoming deliriously intoxicated who becomes sexually assaulted would not have been if they were dressed modestly and sober, and if a man who states again what I am arguing is a fact. That root fact essentially being "less women will become sexually assaulted if dressed modestly and remain sober". If it is a fact and by communicating it to multiple people less women become victims of sexual assault... I ask you. Is that a service or a disservice? — Outlander
What poor, dumb animals we men must be if the sight of female flesh so incapacitates our intelligence that we're compelled to objectify women because they wear certain clothing. — Ciceronianus the White
And that women are less likely to be victimized if they dress more conservatively is irrelevant and an insult to suggest, even if true. — Michael
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