I think you may have misconstrued the point I was making : that your subjective "tangible" reality is different in essence from Objective or Ultimate Reality? But your feelings are indeed your reality, even though they are merely symbolic analogs of "Base Reality". Our Subjective sensory perceptions are the cause of tangible bodily experiences, but those feelings & experiences are mental constructs in the individual brain, not direct links to Ultimate Reality. So, I think we are in agreement about "reality number one" : that we are capable of experiencing it only indirectly, via non-sensory philosophical imagination.you're misconstruing the difference between my reality (the one I am experiencing, which is tangible in so far as I am capable of experiencing it) and base reality (the ultimate building block for all of existence, reality number one, first edition) — Lif3r
you are presenting a connotation of the original text, not refuting mine. — Lif3r
This is the reality I am experiencing, and so I can conclude it exists in so far as I am capable of thought.
I think, therefore I am, and I am, therefore my reality is as well.
Has the extension gone too far, or is it reasonable? — Lif3r
sure it can, because not only does it cover the self, it also extends to anything experienced by the self, — Lif3r
Why bother treating the response to this indulgence in faux doubt as significant in any way? — Ciceronianus the White
I don't thing there is any doubt that Descartes did not feel he was indulging in "faux doubt"..... — Pantagruel
in which case we must ask what would be required in order to convince you that you were pissing? — Ciceronianus the White
How do you know, though? How, or what, would he doubt in order to truly doubt? Something more would be required than the mere statement "I doubt." One has to doubt something. Have you ever tried to doubt you were taking a piss while doing so? When you continued pissing, was your doubt resolved--in which case we must ask why continuing to piss was persuasive--or did you continue to doubt despite continuing to piss--in which case we must ask what would be required in order to convince you that you were pissing? — Ciceronianus the White
Hygienics of your example aside, Descartes' conception of doubt is as radical as it gets. Radical metaphysical doubt was how our professor characterized it back in the day. So you may doubt what Rene meant by doubt, but it's a minority view. — Pantagruel
In what sense was Descartes uncertain of his existence, and what was the reason for his uncertainty? — Ciceronianus the White
I can have thoughts that are strictly about me and have nothing to do with anything external. — Pinprick
I suggest you read his Meditations. — Pantagruel
I was in Germany at the time, having been called by the wars that are still going on there. I was returning to the army from the Emperor’s coronation when the onset of winter held me in one place ·until the weather should clear·. Finding no conversation to help me pass the time, and fortunately having no cares or passions to trouble me, I stayed all day shut up alone in a heated room where I was completely free to talk with myself about my own thoughts...
I dont think it does negate our reality. I think it proves the experience of the self, affirming that one can be sure of one's existence on the pretenses of being capable of thinking, or experiencing the existence. My interpretation of the Cogito's intention is to seek proof for anything, and it attempts to strip the entire experience of existence to the bare minimum. I believe Descartes would say along the lines of "we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt." Perhaps we have a different interpretation. — Lif3r
Actually, the Discourse on the Method might be worth considering. It makes clear that Descartes was bored, and engaging an a bit of whimsey.
I was in Germany at the time, having been called by the wars that are still going on there. I was returning to the army from the Emperor’s coronation when the onset of winter held me in one place ·until the weather should clear·. Finding no conversation to help me pass the time, and fortunately having no cares or passions to trouble me, I stayed all day shut up alone in a heated room where I was completely free to talk with myself about my own thoughts... — Banno
...and you can do this only because you also have thoughts that are about other stuff. That's how you worked out the difference between "me" and "anything external"; without which, not. — Banno
I have no way to consciously experience the external world, but I would still be aware of what is internal; my feelings, needs, etc. and could form thoughts about them. — Pinprick
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