logical impossibilities — DoppyTheElv
It isn't a sufficient fix, because if it is Panentheism it would also entail many other problems such as, is god matter? — Augustusea
and if the universe is a part of god, that still doesn't fix the problem of the Universe's creation, since I believe it would entail god also needing a cause since he would be material, if we assume the Kalam cosmological argument is correct (other arguments to prove Panentheism would be insufficient I believe) — Augustusea
the paradox arises from absolutes — Augustusea
it is contradictory, that's the point. — Augustusea
You haven't defined matter so I do not know why this would be a problem given in this situation what ever aspects are to be defined as god gave rise to the universe and not vice versa. — substantivalism
I — substantivalism
I'd curious know to know what those arguments are but besides that because we're talking about panentheism (not pantheism) as well assuming a string of philosophical assumptions (or philosophical interpretations of spacetime) this is rather dubious a critique. At most this particular part of god temporally wasn't before at some point in time then after another point in time it was (the clay was an amorphous blob then it was sculpted into becoming davids statue but all throughout the process the clay still existed where clay = god). — substantivalism
Which I think is a mainly small viewpoint to take as there are other ways of approaching defining omnipotence that do not explicitly write into their definitions that they can perform impossible tasks which is a sort of low hanging philosophical fruit to me. — substantivalism
No, it's not. The stone paradox has as a conclusion the non-omnipotence of God. It doesn't employ contradiction to make that point. The contradictory nature of the stone paradox is what we discovered in this discussion. — TheMadFool
I beg to differ,
you cannot have a green red, it is contradictory/illogical, thus impossible
it is a conclusion that can be extracted from the contradictory nature of the paradox. — Augustusea
god is both defeated and victorious over himself in this situation, a contradiction, thus illogical.
god can be both omnipotent and not omnipotent here,
he is powerful to create it, but by creating it he isn't powerful. — Augustusea
god being powerful but not powerful is a part of it essentially. — Augustusea
everything, can be defined as matter.
nothing, as no matter — Augustusea
god is both defeated and victorious over himself in this situation, a contradiction, thus illogical.
god can be both omnipotent and not omnipotent here,
he is powerful to create it, but by creating it he isn't powerful. — Augustusea
I don't think that works if we keep in mind that there is energy or light. Some substances have no mass at all. Should you then call them matter? and well..That nothing is a negation in and of itself. So its not worth saying that it's not matter. It's not anything. — DoppyTheElv
So then is this a mistake on the definition of omnipotence or is this a mistake within the question "Can God create a stone he cannot lift?" ? — DoppyTheElv
I don't think that works if we keep in mind that there is energy or light. Some substances have no mass at all. Should you then call them matter? and well..That nothing is a negation in and of itself. So its not worth saying that it's not matter. It's not anything. — DoppyTheElv
I say relatively since there would still be those even lower you in evolution! — Zack Beni
Energy is a mathematically conserved quantity and the conservation of it comes only from time invariance mathematically. Light is would be matter then that lacks the monadic property of rest mass but photons still exist. — substantivalism
That's why all the great faiths particularly those of the east like HInduism and Buddhism call Matter Illusory or Maya and thus not real since fundamentally all that which changes isn't real but illusory.
Therefore in the absolute sense, your use of the word "Reality" wouldn't be true since that which is Real is immutable. And according to these great faiths, only God is Real. — Zack Beni
This is what Pantheism, the true hope and promise of salvation for all beings, means. God is in All beings and All beings are in God. In their joy He rejoices and in their afflictions He is afflicted! — Zack Beni
You also haven't defined god so much of what you said remains somewhat meaningless.
By God, I mean God is his dual mode namely Spirit and Substance — Zack Beni
which are also called Male and Female, Father and Mother, — Zack Beni
Energy and Space respectively. — Zack Beni
This substance is the essence of Matter. — Zack Beni
Matter is the result of motion and activity of Substance, the female part of God. — Zack Beni
But I add that the Matter I am referring to, is NOT limited to Physical Matter only recognised by materialists. In addition to this, there is also Astral matter,... — Zack Beni
Thus It means that all that exists is the substance of God simply in different conditions so that all is in God and God is in all and thus everything is God but only differ in condition or state. — Zack Beni
By this definition, it is evident that God didn't create anything by means outside Himself as some, in my opinion, unreasonably assert since there is NO THING outside Him but used Himself(God's Self) to create all. And from this comes His omnipresence. — Zack Beni
Are you in favour of abandoning anthropomorphic renditions of god including giving him the human moral high ground or aesthetic perfection? — substantivalism
Again, define god as you seemingly have failed to do aside from giving me rather poetic language that hasn't gotten me anywhere. — substantivalism
Haven't really much defined matter here. — substantivalism
What is physical matter? What is astral matter and how can we perform pragmatic epistemologically idealist investigations of its existence/influence on understanding the inner behavior/workings of our universe? — substantivalism
The definition of God, well at least my conception of Him—which in all fairness might be different from yours— has really been given maybe you were just not satisfied. But I do agree some of the terms were not were explained and need some further elaboration. — Zack Beni
A simple definition of Matter, of course from the point of view of my conception, is all things whose particles are in movement, motion or vibration. I believe it is well established in science that every thing in the universe is in some sort of motion which I also called activity. — Zack Beni
Substance is simply the essence of this matter. Matter is Substance in motion. When actvity shall cease in the universe, all matter shall resume its original condition spirit and be Substance. Here Spirit is used to mean a condition. — Zack Beni
Physical matter is referring to the tangible part or plane of our planet. I am afraid for the astral matter, I can't offer you any way to experiment with it unless you develop the corresponding senses to consciously experiment with that plane. On Astral matter and other non-physical matter, I can only direct you to those who did experiments on that plane and documented their scienfitic findings for you to judge whether they are credible or not per your own discretion. — Zack Beni
God, in His true self, is the essence and the highest of all the qualities we can think of; be it Perfection, Beauty, Good, Purity,etc. God defines what is moral and ethical and only that which perfectly conforms to His will can be rightly termed ethical and moral. — Zack Beni
Humans are the closest and highest in manifesting God on earth; Christ being the true manifestation of God on earth. — Zack Beni
The higher your conception of God, the closer you are to Him and are getting alike since Man is ever striving to create himself in the image of his God.. — Zack Beni
Now since the God of Mind is a subjective one, and the highest of any quality the Mind of man can conceptualize is actually his God; — Zack Beni
He who conquers others is strong; he who conquers himself is mighty. — Lao Tzu/The Buddha
God's Omnipotence is defined as god's ability to do everything, i.e. have immense power. — Augustusea
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