Every person possess some kind of ideology, the question has to do with the concrete nature of ideology. — JerseyFlight
every quality you possess came from society. — JerseyFlight
For many, me included, it is the fact that a government may force individuals to part with their wealth. — Tzeentch
The difference being; there's no state that gets to take one's things, to provide one with services one didn't ask for nor wishes to receive. — Tzeentch
You're so right. Just send me your location and I'll send someone over to murder you and take all your stuff. — Pro Hominem
Ah. So you are not coerced into following the traffic rules. You choose to out of a sense of utility.
You would follow then even if they were not attached to a set of penalties.
Do you like the idea of their being penalties for other folk? Or do you think we should leave it up to other people to decide for themselves the utility of following traffic rules?
Do you support the removal of penalties so that we may each decide how to behave on the road?
Or do you think that we ought coerce other people - not you - into stopping at red lights? — Banno
There is another way out of this, just let your beliefs about the topic alter. That's the value of other minds. It's pretty clear you have been refuted. Don't hold onto the error, move in the direction of the greater truth. — JerseyFlight
You have already lived way beyond your without-government life expectancy, so if you want to be true to your "values" you should take one of the guns you're undoubtedly stockpiling with your government-given rights and use it on yourself. — Pro Hominem
I love to read discussions where people respect each other. :smile: — Gus Lamarch
This is fairly obviously a tongue in cheek statement to demonstrate how asinine the logical results of his position are. Or perhaps you were referring to the fact that I am wasting my time talking to someone who is obviously deeply committed to their dangerous fantasies and I should respect myself more? — Pro Hominem
What I said is that coercion is something inherently problematic. When we apply that to politics, it results in the position that government is, at best, a necessary evil (↪JerseyFlight, ↪Pro Hominem, pay attention next time). — Tzeentch
Thus I believe government interference in individual's goings-on should be minimalized at every opportunity. — Tzeentch
A classically liberal (read: not the "modern" use of the word), perhaps libertarian, view. — Tzeentch
I am saying that using aggressive language will not lead to any conclusion other than some injured egos and - eventually - banishment. You may disagree with ech other, there's nothing wrong there, we are not yet living in times of totalitarianism. — Gus Lamarch
There is net social utility in adamantly rejecting perverse and dangerous ideologies and being seen doing it. We need to make marginalizing people like this a social norm again. It is possible for people to just be wrong. Every idea does not have equal merit. Some need to be removed root and branch. — Pro Hominem
While I understand individuals may have different opinions on the implications of this inherent tension at the center of governance, I find it disconcerting that many cannot even recognize it. — Tzeentch
What I said is that coercion is something inherently problematic. When we apply that to politics, it results in the position that government is, at best, a necessary evil (↪JerseyFlight, ↪Pro Hominem, pay attention next time). Thus I believe government interference in individual's goings-on should be minimalized at every opportunity. A classically liberal (read: not the "modern" use of the word), perhaps libertarian, view. — Tzeentch
I find it disingenuous, if not dishonorable, to disguise the simple desire to keep one's possessions from others by platitudes about limiting the power of government. Why not be honest about one's selfishness? My money, my property, my rights--what could be a more self-centered view of our place in the world? — Ciceronianus the White
It is my property. It is my rights, and it is my money. — BitconnectCarlos
A very large number of those immigrants commit crimes. Rob and beat people. There are a lot of shootings between criminal gangs. Etnically scandinavian kids do get beaten in school. And still, wealthy, left-leaning ladys call for ”solidarity”. Is that what a upperclass person with left-leaning views are looking for? — Ansiktsburk
So it's not about empathy, at the root of it. Honestly speaking, it's about commitment to an idea or a principle. It's about solving an idea. Solving a problem. Lets leave empathy out of it. — BitconnectCarlos
Oh really, well thanks for letting me know. I never knew spina bifida or cystic fibrosis came from society. Never knew the amount of fast twitch muscles I had actually came from society. I never knew tongue tie came from society. — BitconnectCarlos
Eleanor Roosevelt famously said that with freedom comes responsibility. — praxis
I find it disingenuous, if not dishonorable, to disguise the simple desire to keep one's possessions from others by platitudes about limiting the power of government. Why not be honest about one's selfishness? My money, my property, my rights--what could be a more self-centered view of our place in the world? — Ciceronianus the White
Friend, you have already been utterly refuted by Banno. This is not just an opinion, it's a fact. It's why you didn't answer his valid questions. — JerseyFlight
You did not answer Banno's questions, you did not even engage his argument, which amounts to the total negation of your position. — JerseyFlight
It's pretty clear you have been refuted. — JerseyFlight
What a swift refutation. :lol: :up: — JerseyFlight
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