I don't think the topic would be as controversial if everyone thought that the US was invading Iraq on behalf of the Iraqi people, for the purpose of their liberation. The major reason given was the WMDs which weren't actually there, that objective was flawed from the start. If the war reason given was "Hussein you're evil and we are going to depose you for the good of the Iraqi people" then I think the war would be viewed differently. — Judaka
As US bases being attacked by Iran with artillery missiles in an retaliatory strike and the Iraqi Parliament having already made a resolution calling for the withdrawal of US forces, I would say this train wreck of a disaster is nowhere being over.The other issue is that even though it's been years since the Iraq war, Iraq is still a mess and with that knowledge, it's difficult to call the war a success from the standpoint of helping the Iraqi people. If Iraq was now a peaceful, solid democracy that the people supported then more people would support the invasion. — Judaka
make the Iraqi people believe — Paul Edwards
a cunning plan for world liberation — Paul Edwards
This is flatly false.Once a decision had been made that Saddam needed to be removed for other reasons, the US did indeed take the exact action of merely liberating the Iraqi people, and not even forcing a bus timetable on them. — Paul Edwards
then your interest is clearly not in freedom, but in forcing unbelievers to convert to your ideology
My ideology is freedom as I define it — Paul Edwards
I'll need something specific to be able to contest the claim, and it's far from obvious. Ending the Iraqi holocaust (including institutional rape) is probably the most just war in the history of the world, and if Just War Theory fails to spell that out then the theory needs to be adjusted. — Paul Edwards
Which is killing people until they accept your politics. Fascism, essentially.
No, my policy for Iraq (and other countries) at this stage in world history is to install democracy — Paul Edwards
No, my policy for Iraq (and other countries) at this stage in world history is to install democracy — Paul Edwards
Our politics. And to do so by killing as many people as it takes. — Kenosha Kid
Perhaps we should gather a huge UN force and send it into the US to install social cohesion into the US. — ssu
Tangential, here. But it seems to me that the removal of dictators always results in matters becoming worse, at least for a while and usually a long while. I am sure there are examples where removing dictators worked for the good but I cannot think of one. Can you?Worse, the US did not display insight into how to remove a mostly hated dictator without collapsing the whole society into chaos — Bitter Crank
I am sure there are examples where removing dictators worked for the good but I cannot think of one. — tim wood
let the winners of democratic elections kill people who take up arms against the democratic government
I rather liked Trumps idea of a wall, We could all contribute and extend it around the whole place. — FrancisRay
Two modern examples come to mind:I am sure there are examples where removing dictators worked for the good but I cannot think of one. Can you? — tim wood
Tangential, here. But it seems to me that the removal of dictators always results in matters becoming worse, at least for a while and usually a long while. I am sure there are examples where removing dictators worked for the good but I cannot think of one. Can you?
Our politics. And to do so by killing as many people as it takes. — Kenosha Kid
9/11 requires us to fix every individual on the planet, — Paul Edwards
You'll never explain the Iraq invasion,. It was a family feud for the Bushes
let the winners of democratic elections kill people who take up arms against the democratic government
— Paul Edwards
Isn't this this unofficial policy of all countries already? — magritte
Even philosophically this is illogical: Let's have foreigners come to your country and install democracy. It's like an application that you can have someone install to you.
does that call for another assumption? — Paul Edwards
fails to spell that out then the theory needs to be adjusted.
— Paul Edwards
As I said, you're not here for debate but for confirmation of your own believes. Boring. — Benkei
Precisely. You can eliminate many objections by defining your terms and making more assumptions explicit.
For example, you would want to rule out Russia, with elected leadership, making war against Australia on ideological grounds.
Once a decision had been made that Saddam needed to be removed for other reasons, the US did indeed take the exact action of merely liberating the Iraqi people, and not even forcing a bus timetable on them.
— Paul Edwards
This is flatly false.
Iraq in reality became this sandbox for politically appointed and usually inept Republicans (chosen because of political ties and not experience) were with Paul Bremer micromanaging everything in Iraq at the crucial stage. The "de-baathification" of Iraqi legal system went to quite extreme lengths by Americans rewriting traffic laws etc. — ssu
and the Iraqi Parliament having already made a resolution calling for the withdrawal of US forces, I would say this train wreck of a disaster is nowhere being over. — ssu
Because democracy has to come from the society itself. The own domestic elite of a country have to be for democracy. The struggle for power has to happen at the election booth and the result has to be accepted by all. Foreign military might won't do it.What's illogical about that? — Paul Edwards
A country formed because Colombia wasn't going to sign the deal with the US due to the terms the Americans were giving them for the Panama Canal, so more convenient was to have some Panamians stage a revolt for 100 000$. Nicely agreed in an American hotel, even if Panamians celebrate their independence from Spain on November 28, 1821 now days.It was done with great success in Panama. — Paul Edwards
Simply because Australian know and cherish democracy and the Australian elite is totally willing to go with democracy. Every defeated country that bounced back after a lost war and occupation, be it Germany or Japan, had ample amount of social cohesion, belief and love in their country and honesty to understand that the previous totalitarian path lead to ruin and things should be changed.If Australia had a military coup and the US came to Australia to dislodge the dictator, Australia would be a great success story too. — Paul Edwards
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.