I dropped my absentee ballot for Biden-Harris this morning. Came home, showered vigorously, made lunch, and for the last 4 or so hours I've indulged in a hard bop happy hour while watching restless Atlanta grind on toward an unspectacular overcast evening. We're all fatigued senseless; but in 8 days, at least, timely results from Florida, North Carolina & Arizona (& maybe Pennsylvania) will bring the beginning of the end of this MAGA dumpster-fire shitshow on election night.

:victory: :mask:

Churchill. The real work starts in January (with plenty of attention to the interregnum). Biden (imo) needs to figure out how to do a legal and thorough purge of GOP/Trumpers from the executive branch. He needs to see that justice is imposed. And it would be nice if the USA could enact some law to make lying actionable and worth taking action on.

Nah, the real work starts in November, when Trump is assured out and the grassroots pressure begins. No reliance on corrupt centrists figuring things out.

Fair enough. But why so many Biden haters? I read the news and have since before Watergate. Biden is the guy we didn't want in the last several - many - elections, but that isn't hateful. And he hasn't been a sage, but who has? Two more Obama-Biden terms might have been a very nice thing. In short, what did Biden do? Whatever has made anyone see him and Trump as even remotely comparable? (Not shooting at you, but if you reply, I'll certainly read it.)

:up:

You say fair enough and that you're not shooting at me but nevertheless your comment was a reaction to something I said...

The first article is a summary of Biden's record, the second article is by the same author on why voting for Biden is nevertheless necessary to take out Trump.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/03/democrats-you-really-do-not-want-to-nominate-joe-biden

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/08/an-ineffectual-biden-presidency-is-better-for-the-left-than-an-actively-authoritarian-trump-presidency

Maybe you should listen to/read some of your own references and drill down into the given supporting evidence. There is nothing there. You've been had - and maybe you wanted to be had but that's a different subject.

I invite all and anyone to go through your citations. At best they're cherry-picking innuendo and suggestion with no substance, real Fox-news Trumpian stuff.

Prove me wrong. exhibit the facts.

You can click on the links and open them up as I'm doing right now. None are Fox News, or Fox News-like sources. I suggest trying to click on them and reading some of them.

Could Kamala Harris be a potential VP pick for Biden? — 0 thru 9

Whoa, you should go in to the consulting biz!

I did. That is why I replied as I did. Attacking Biden for the content of those is like attacking the fire department because of fires. My point is this: people don't like Biden, but there is little or no substance. The expression used to be, "Where's the beef?" No one seems to have any.

And part of my problem is that some people think he will be a bad president, the only relevant response being to remind them of the alternative. And that Biden has never been president. In my opinion the stage is set for him to do a better than good job that history will regard favorably.

There are literally videos linked to in the article with Biden in his own words confirming the article's claims. And you're shouting 'fake news'. You are the exact mirror image of the Trumpers.

My point is this: people don't like Biden, but there is little or no substance. The expression used to be, "Where's the beef?" No one seems to have any. — tim wood

It seems reasonable to question some of Biden's decisions, or any politician's decisions. If anyone wishes to that on a philosophy forum it would be even more reasonable to start a thread which challenges one particular decision in some careful detail.

Don't like his Iraq war vote? Ok, let's go in to that step by step.

Not at all. It's real news. But context. He talks about freezing Social Security. But as illustrative, him being explicit in understanding and making clear he is neither president nor leader. His is concern about the economy and the financial well-being of the US (and the world). And he identifies SS as an issue and Medicare as, "The gorilla in the room." These are just facts, and he is talking about them as evidenced in the data presented. He is clear that any freeze includes a freeze on everything, not just this or that. And from this and similar approaches the torch and pitchfork brigade demonize him.

Well, we have to take care whom we demonize, because the real evil stands to benefit. And it's a half-wit who cannot tell the difference - I am not sure what to call those who will not.

Don't like Biden? You're free not to. But the evidence as presented is always, "Look at this article or that report!" And I do that; and I find that the news, at least wrt Biden and most other Democrats, does not support the claims made from it or about it. In fact in all cases here on TPF of being referred to something (outside of math or science), that something has never been what it was claimed to be.

In the Senate from 1972, his a reputation for working-with. Is he, was he, prescient? Were all of his votes on the right side? History shows he's not perfect. But it is wise to remember that politics is in the moment, and thus not in-itself historical.

Don't like his Iraq war vote? Ok, let's go in to that step by step. — Hippyhead

Which war, there were two. Geo. Sr.'s defensible - maybe even necessary. Geo. Jr's not. Nor, military aside, well-managed or thought-out. But Biden voted. So did a lot of people. Two questions: was the vote justified at the time - and that's a debate. And has history judged? History, so far, has seemed to have judged, but that judgment is much political itself and in that way itself a-historical. I'm satisfied that Biden voted as he thought best at the time. Others thought differently, to be sure, but don't forget the lies that got them all there in the first place.

It is my opinion that people hate Biden for not being the white knight, cure-all, and hero that they want. But he never was. He has always been a politician, professional, doing a politician's job. Yet the job he appears on the verge of taking may make him one, force him to be one. And if he gets the House and the Senate, that might happen.

I dropped my absentee ballot for Biden-Harris this morning. Came home, showered vigorously, made lunch, and for the last 4 or so hours I've indulged in a hard bop happy hour while watching restless Atlanta grind on toward an unspectacular overcast evening. We're all fatigued senseless; but in 8 days, at least, timely results from Florida, North Carolina & Arizona (& maybe Pennsylvania) will bring the beginning of the end of this MAGA dumpster-fire shitshow on election night. — 180 Proof

I visited downtown Atlanta a few days ago to eat lunch with my son at Tech, and traveling from my humble abode outside the perimeter, it's as if I left the country I lived in and entered another. And to be clear, I've lived here since I was born and have worked downtown and roamed there too many times to count. Maybe it's changed for the worse or maybe I've forgotten, but it was disgraceful, with the garbage literally overflowing unemptied garbage cans onto the street and abundant loitering. The bright yellow Ferrari parked on the street didn't make much sense, or maybe it did.

That is the dumpster fire shit-show and it needs to be addressed. Trump isn't the one to do it. The best he can do is scare me that it's coming my way and protect my right to defend myself against it, all the while further marginalizing those I'm being protected from. And let's not pretend Biden will do any better.

I don't hate Biden. I dislike people who think Biden has anything good to bring to the world or the USA specifically. The US system is so incredibly bonkers, with basically legal corruption embedded in its political system, that any status quo candidate is just going to make things worse for most people.

Quite frankly nobody should be giving two shits about Biden's personality just as Trump's personality is totally besides the point. The real politik right wingers understand this perfectly. Mitch played you all, among others, while Trump takes the heat because he's dumbass. Welcome to a Conservative justice system with babies like Amy Coney Barrett playing at being a supreme court judge. I hope she chokes on her imposter syndrome.

Agreed. Joe won't make things better. I'm confident, though, the Biden administration won't deliberately make thibgs worse or work against them (all-too-gradually) improving.

I'm more worried about Biden's foreign policy, because that's the President's day-to-day job and where they have the most power. And there are too many countries out there that the U.S. influences for grassroots movements to touch upon.

Agreed. Joe won't make things better. I'm confident, though, the Biden administration won't deliberately make things worse or work against them (all-too-gradually) improving. — 180 Proof

Well, that gives a short timetable for the protests against the Biden administration to begin. The "Well, at least he isn't Trump" attitude will wear off quite quickly. I think that will happen in the fall of 2021. If we still have the corona virus then as we have now, it's a sure thing.

:up:

I didn't know this about Joe and I think it's pretty funny some of the best ads are being made by Conservatives.

Indeed.

*stir*

What if Joe is basically a decent human being and the influence of how a system works (or actually doesn't) is even bigger than we think?

Biden is a fairly run-of-the-mill hawkish conservative. Not my cup of tea. I'd still rather tea over urine though.

In many ways Joe's 'decency' is a bigger indictment on the system than the buffoonishness of Trump. A system which produces vile human beings who act like it is one thing; a system which produces vile human beings who are perfectly amicable is terrifying in a whole different register.

But it's also reason for hope because systems can be changed.

Yes, Biden, Bush, Obama et al have been produced to believe their image is who they are. Even they think they're decent human beings. There's no lacuna there; it's ideology all the way down. Kim, on the other hand, at least knows he's an evil bastard.

So who, then? If they're all scum-sucking evil bastards with no human decency, who? Mother Theresa? Careful what you wish for!

And what system of government? The bad system is bad and the good system is bad. You do buy the notion that government of some kind is desirable, yes? But according to you both, it's the system. The system produces bad people; even the ones seeming good are bad, so bad that Kim, Trump, Obama, Biden, Bush, and presumably everyone else are just either Himmlers or Eichmanns, or some other devils incarnate - and you cannot tell the difference. Although you do have your preferences - I wonder why or on what basis.

So who? What system?

Calm down.