Dennett's career is based on that apparently outrageous claim, and he's clever enough to be tenured for it. And you may think it pointless, but it is not insignificant, a great deal hinges on it. I get criticized a lot for 'obsessing' about Dennett, but it's because he the most prominent advocate of philosophical materialism in modern culture. So if you want to show the shortcomings of philosophical materialism, the central weakness of its strongest exponent is a good place to start! — Wayfarer
So, is Human Consciousness a form of Matter? If so, what is the missing link? Whence the Illusion?
Or, is Human Awareness perhaps a form of immaterial, but knowable, Information? — Gnomon
to say that consciousness is an illusion is essentially to saw off the branch on which you're sitting. For an illusion presupposes a conscious mind that is being deceived by the illusion. — Alvin Capello
Exactly. I don’t understand how supposedly cogent and smart philosophers can keep making the same logical error again and again. Dennett must not be very smart. — Olivier5
The word itself seems to presume consciousness. I can imagine specific conclusions about consciousness being incorrect or about 'human nature' or ontology coming out of our everyday experience and sense of what consciousness is. But that it is an illusion makes no sense to me just on a semantic level. An illusion is one type of experience. I'd also wonder how they are getting their information such that their words have meaning if not via having been conscious of things, arguments....etc. iow it seems problematic for an empiricist to make that blanket statement, not that a rationalist has it easy eitherillusion
/ɪˈluːʒ(ə)n/
noun
an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.
The word itself seems to presume consciousness. — Coben
We could say "whatever is actually happening in our mental process, we'll call that 'consciousness' and work out what properties it has - I think that's the route you're drawn from the sound of it. — Isaac
Then it appears that there is no difference in an illusion of consciousness that doesn't have proper semantics, and one that does. Semantics is derived from the syntax - from the relationship between the rules and what the rules cause one to do or not do.The same as the distinction between an illusion of consciousness that (like the Chinese Room) doesn't have a proper semantics, and one that does. — bongo fury
The same as the distinction between an illusion of consciousness that (like the Chinese Room) doesn't have a proper semantics, and one that does. — bongo fury
The definition of consciousness, I'm going to use here is awareness of the external world and also of oneself. It's quite obvious that this is what is meant by consciousness by most folks as when these don't occur e.g. when one is asleep or in a coma, we're said to be unconscious.
Imagine now a camera set up in such a way that it captures images of the external world and also of itself with the help of a mirror placed strategically. It's turned on and images of itself and the world are formed inside it. This camera is, in every sense of the word, aware of both the external world and also itself which take the form of images that form inside it, behind the lens. — TheMadFool
So, is Human Consciousness a form of Matter? If so, what is the missing link? Whence the Illusion?
Or, is Human Awareness perhaps a form of immaterial, but knowable, Information?
Questions? Comments? — Gnomon
Yeah, it's the difference between consciousness as a subject of investigation and consciousness as an adjunct to investigation. — Isaac
The problem is that you are still aware when asleep. You wake up suddenly to loud noises. How could you do that unless you were at least partially aware? Are you conscious while dreaming?The definition of consciousness, I'm going to use here is awareness of the external world and also of oneself. It's quite obvious that this is what is meant by consciousness by most folks as when these don't occur e.g. when one is asleep or in a coma, we're said to be unconscious. — TheMadFool
But 1 and 2 are identical in that both are awareness of the external world and of oneself. Ergo, to think that there's something extra - consciousness - — TheMadFool
Or we could say "whatever is actually happening in our conscious process, we'll call that 'mind' and work out what properties it has" etc. — bongo fury
Meaning exists wherever causes leave effects. — Harry Hindu
It's not some special thing or process that only exists as a feature of minds. — Harry Hindu
The discussion here is about er conscious humans that are supposed to have illusions about their own consciousness. In the case of the Chinese Room (some) conscious humans are under the misconception that a computer is conscious. — Daemon
The camera is not aware of anything in the way you are. — Daemon
In the case of the Chinese Room (some) conscious humans are under the misconception that a computer is conscious. — Daemon
These different kinds of awareness (of the external and the internal) come together to produce what is, at the end of the day, an image of the world and yourself in it.
How different is this image from that captured by your phone's camera of the world and itself through a mirror? — TheMadFool
As I alluded, there's no distinction between being in pain and the illusion of pain if both hurt. — Mijin
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