Yes, I can know what you are going to do; "look he is going to ask her out!"
— Antony Nickles
"...you can’t know he asks until he actually does." — Mww
.'Meaning' is like the imagined 'hidden' inner process. A concept's grammar is its possibilities of sense--not a fixed 'meaning' like a definition either. "It's a blue day."
— Antony Nickles
It is because concepts do have specific meanings... which obtains a meaningful statement coincidental to speaker and listener. * * * understanding is a logical procedure in which the objects must align with the subject necessarily in order for there to be understanding in the first place. — Mww
Witt does say its amazing that we can communicate at all.
— Antony Nickles
...I can see, however, that Witt’s detractors might say exactly that, considering they might think Witt made common language use FUBAR because of his very own philosophical investigations. By the way.....did Witt have any peers playing the role of serious detractor? — Mww
"If a lion could talk, we could not understand him."
I will argue that it is essential to put the above sentence in the textual context in which it was written to see its USE here by Witt--(...) that it is used in its sense as an uncontested FACT (not to be refuted or interpreted, nor an open question, nor a thesis, etc.)
— Antony Nickles
I can grant the sentence is being used as an uncontested fact, but if it is not be contested, refuted or interpreted asks the question....why did he say it? Apparently Witt is allowing himself to do something with it, even if only to demonstrate something else, which seems to require some sort of correspondence with an uncontested fact. Doesn’t the fact need to be interpreted in order to determine its correspondence? — Mww
SO what counts as language use? my suggestion, from the previous thread already mentioned, is that it contain names, groups of things and connectives; that is, first order predicate logic. And determining this of course involves translation. — Banno
Doesn’t the fact need to be interpreted in order to determine its correspondence?
— Mww
As I said in my first post: he is using it as a fact in comparison to the choice (the conviction) — Antony Nickles
Importantly, these are two senses of knowledge within its Grammar (possibilities): to know (to guess with evidence, experience of the person, etc.) as opposed to knowledge as certain, prediction, infallibility, etc. — Antony Nickles
It is not that we CAN NOT know/understand the other.....we decide that without knowledge......we have no obligation to respond to their pain. — Antony Nickles
The idea of a sentence or a word in isolation is only a thing in philosophy--stemming from the desire to tether it to something determinate, certain, universal. — Antony Nickles
"I cannot know what is going on in him" is above all a picture. Witt, PI, p. 223.
— Antony Nickles
Can you help me out with [the] picture? Picture of what, picture of what kind, how do I know it as such, what am I enabled to do with it, what am I enabled to do because of it......and whatever else may apply as far as this topic is concerned. — Mww
You say the lion sentence is to be taken as a fact demonstrating an impossibility. It is only to be taken as a fact because its author so stipulates, but the sentence does not demonstrate an impossibility. — Mww
The conviction that the feelings some dude in pain are inaccessible to us when in truth “we CAN know”, but choose to be convinced we can’t.... — Mww
we [are] relieved of moral responsibility... so can’t be held liable for denying the accessibility of them [the Other's feelings] — Mww
And all that needs doing..... is to grant that... the grammar of concepts are not etched in stone, so the reasoning using concepts is adaptable to circumstance. — Mww
It is not that we CAN NOT know/understand the other.....we decide that without knowledge......we have no obligation to respond to their pain.
— Antony Nickles
It is never our knowledge of others that predicates our moral obligations. — Mww
The idea of a sentence or a word in isolation is only a thing in philosophy--stemming from the desire to tether it to something determinate, certain, universal.
— Antony Nickles
Yes. Tethering to the irreducible, the apodeitically certain, is the whole modus operandi of human reason, and consequently, for possible mutual understanding because of it. — Mww
Witt credits language use for understanding, or lack of it, but proper philosophy reduces language to its components, and those are the actual ground for understanding, and by association, the prevention of misunderstanding. Rather than worry about what a word means in a language, it is a better effort to realize how words originate of themselves, for then we find the meaning of a word is given BY its origin, and understanding henceforth becomes a matter of its relation, and its meaning becomes merely a matter of convention. — Mww
The picture is: meaning, thought, any inner processes (how some use Forms of Life), corresponds to the world. We know one (world) through the other (word/meaning)--correlation. — Antony Nickles
it's just we have a relationship to the Other that is more than knowledge ("know" in a different sense--aaaand I just lost Mmw because this is Witt as Ordinary Language Philosopher.) — Antony Nickles
reasoning using concepts is adaptable to circumstance.
— Mww
......Concepts have different "uses" as in different ways in which they make sense.....
Doesn’t that say the same thing?
........the sense a concept has, is part of the context at the time (as it were, to be determined, if necessary).......
Doesn’t that just say more of the same thing?
..........just that what counts as reasonable for each concept, in context, may be different. — Antony Nickles
The picture is: meaning, thought, any inner processes (how some use Forms of Life), corresponds to the world. We know one (world) through the other (word/meaning)--correlation.
— Antony Nickles
Agreed, in principle. The picture....the mental image as I use “picture”......corresponds to the world, such image I would call intuition, but the remainder of the inner process must ensue before there is knowledge. Different metaphysics, similar principles. — Mww
it's just we have a relationship to the Other that is more than knowledge ("know" in a different sense--aaaand I just lost Mmw because this is Witt as Ordinary Language Philosopher.)
— Antony Nickles
Kindasorta lost me, I guess, insofar as I attribute no philosophical authority to ordinary language. But I’m still interested in this “know” in a different sense, from its point of view. — Mww
[concepts have different meanings. Or, the grammar of concepts are not etched in stone, so the] reasoning using concepts is adaptable to circumstance.
— Mww
......Concepts have different "uses" as in different ways in which they make sense.....
Doesn’t that say the same thing? — Mww
A concept is, after all, nothing but a representation of something. A representation, in and of itself, has no meaning. It only attains to a meaning upon being conjoined with something else, and the only way to conjoin, is to reason. To think. It is here that it becomes more rational to insist concepts are fixed, concepts do ensure something, otherwise we couldn’t ever claim any knowledge whatsoever. — Mww
If we are not certain of a specific representation of a specific quantity, conceived, say, as the number 1, we wouldn’t have any ground at all for what stands as the absolute truth of mathematical expressions. — Mww
we see what counts as reasonable for each concept may indeed be different — Mww
But the number 1 is completely meaningless by itself, and actually wouldn’t even have been conceived at all, if it weren’t for a need only it could satisfy. — Mww
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