Could you explain about information in physics? Is it related to information theory? Or is it a whole different thing? — frank
In spontaneous molecules, [i.e. those which can be accounted for in terms of physics and chemistry] the order of the components comes from within the molecules, from internal factors, whereas in genes and proteins it comes from without, from external templates. This amounts to saying that a molecular system becomes a ‘maker’ when it starts using templates in the production of objects. The difference between spontaneous and manufactured molecules, in short, is a reality because it is an experimental fact that genes and proteins are template-dependent objects. ...This makes us realize that the physicalist thesis is wrong because it is only spontaneous processes that are completely described by physical quantities.
Sean thinks the universe is mathematical (from the Tegmark podcast), so naturally he thinks emergentism is weak, since all macro properties could in principle be computed in advance, given everything is math in his and Tegmark’s view. — Marchesk
Sara’s views are a bit more complicated. It helps to take into account her views on information and life’s emergence earlier in the podcast. — Marchesk
Sara then mentions math and the question of why it's so useful in physics. — Marchesk
Tegmark was on Carroll's podcast, but I don't think Carroll has endorsed his idea. Carroll is a good interviewer, in that he is receptive to all ideas and tries to get his interviewees to make their strongest case. But that doesn't mean that he agrees with everything they say. — SophistiCat
Anyway, I don't see much of a connection between mathematical universe and weak emergence. — SophistiCat
But I've looked at her publications; she has a number of papers on top-down causation in biology, some with Paul Davies, who has also been interested in this topic. That would probably speak to "strong emergence." — SophistiCat
She explored this theme here: The Descent of Math. — SophistiCat
Flies have between three and four thousand "lenses" in their eyes. This useful for detecting motion. If anything moves, everything moves. But I wonder how a fly would count. How would it cognize one, for example? And two or three would be hopeless. So I find some justice in her claim. On the other hand, while the possibility of reason may have evolved out of biology, that is not to say that it is biology - or even what else it might be. We, for example, were once a ratty kind of creature, but we aren't that now, at least most of us. In sum, I find it not credible that the truths that underlie math, or reason itself, are functions of biology.In her view, math is form of information that evolved out of biology. — Marchesk
In Sara's podcast, Carol mentioned Bedau's paper on emergence, where weark emergence is anything that could in principle be simulated before it emerges. A mathematical universe would be computable, so that would make any phenomena weakly emergent. Sara says she doesn't think life can be simulated. — Marchesk
For there to be any kind of emergence, the universe must be "mathematical" in the weaker sense of having an all-pervading structure. The varieties of emergence are different takes on that structure. It would be safe to say that up to this point Carroll is on board with Tegmark (who does take a stronger position), but so is practically everyone involved in this conversation. — SophistiCat
he's a strong proponent of Hume, — ChatteringMonkey
I think when he agreed with Tegmark on our universe being mathematical, he meant it could be fully described by math without leaving anything out. Which means it can be simulated in principle by a full understanding of the microphysics. — Marchesk
Do your really think the core theory, the Standard Model of physics is not up to the task of explaining life? — Sean Carol"
Sara Imari Walker is a theoretical physicist and astrobiologist, who is exploring the dark space between physics and biology. She is an editor, and one of the 30+ authors, of the 2017 book, From Matter to Life : Information and Causality. Most people today think of Information as the inert data processed by computers. But physicists have recently learned that Energy (causation) is also a form of Generic (all-encompassing) Information : the power to enform, to create.My understanding is that Dr. Walker is proposing an additional physics for what she calls information, but is open to it being something else. Basically something that would explain the emergence of life from chemistry (abiogenesis), and provide a better definition for life. — Marchesk
Panpsychism is also an ancient explanation for Life and Mind in the world. But my modern myth of creation involves what you could call : "Pan-Informationism". It assumes that the power to enform (causation; energy) is inherent in the world --- in Gaia, if you like --- not an import ; no consort needed. That theory is based on the current science of Information, as the Single Substance of the world. :cool:panspermia . . . For some reason, I find it more conceptually satisfying than abiogenesis, because it conforms to the primeval mythology of Earth/Mother Sky/Father in the origin of life. — Wayfarer
There are no surprises given perfect knowledge in advance. — Marchesk
Yes. That's why I define and expand-upon the many meanings of Information in my thesis and blog. :smile:However, as I've said before, 'information' is not proper basic substance (in the philosophical sense), because it has too meaning meanings. — Wayfarer
Aristotle divided his encyclopedia into two volumes based on fundamental categories of human knowledge : discussion of objective substances (Matter, physical) and subjective non-substances (Form, mental). “Aristotle famously contends that every physical object is a compound of matter and form.” A technical term for this ancient doctrine is Hylomorphism (matter + design). — Gnomon
The student of Aristotle usually begins with the Categories; and the first thing that strikes him is the author’s unconsciousness of any distinction between grammar and metaphysics, between modes of signifying and modes of being. When he comes to the metaphysical books, he finds that this is not so much an oversight as an assumed axiom — C.S. Peirce
That's where Barbieri claims that the emergence of codes - RNA and DNA in particular - is genuinely novel, and can't be predicted on the basis of physical or chemical laws alone. — Wayfarer
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