conflating perception with reality stigma — creativesoul
conflating perception with reality stigma
— creativesoul
You lost me. Nobody’s a Kantian because that’s what they do, or that’s what he did? — Mww
Cats do not have belief.
— creativesoul
Indeed. — Banno
Yes. As long as we keep in mind that a human being is not just a body, but how it is organized (just as a university is not just a set of buildings, but how they're organized). That is, we predicate experiences, beliefs, perceptions, actions, etc., of human beings, not bodies (or brains).
— Andrew M
This doesn't seem quite right to me; a body is not a separate thing from "how it is organized"; so there would seem to be no problem involved in saying a human being is a (minded, organized) body, in which case "experiences, beliefs, perceptions, actions etc.," can indeed be coherently predicated of (enbrained) bodies. To say that they cannot is to introduce another, differently nuanced layer of separation which begins (again) to look like dualism. — Janus
I didn't think you were willing to say that that statement is true. — creativesoul
Human beings and their bodies are not separate, but we predicate them differently. I have a body (as do other animals). But my body doesn't have beliefs, or experiences. Instead, I do. What a human being is, in contrast, is an animal. In this case an animal that has particular capabilities that distinguish it from other animals (such as the capability for rational thought and language).
Whereas Cartesian dualism does literally separate mind and body. For the Cartesian dualist, experiences and beliefs are in the mind, and "I" is identified with that separable mind. — Andrew M
seems to hold a position very similar(the most similar, I think) to my own. — creativesoul
But the philosophical challenge is to then get literal again. Lest your poetry be seized on. — bongo fury
The main issue for me is that a description of a human being at a physical level should not contradict descriptions at other levels of abstraction. — Andrew M
Are you asking me to justify my asserting what the content of the cat's conscious experience is?
— creativesoul
Apparently, the content is that which exists in its entirety, and so far, that’s the extent of the assertion. Maybe not asking so much the justification for asserting content, but asking instead, what the something’s content actually is. — Mww
And even if the something’s content is some ubiquitous or pervasive correlation, I still have no more understanding of that, than I had with understanding merely the ambiguous something.
Nowadays folks tend to think what we perceive is just the way things really are. — Mww
Nowadays folks tend to think what we perceive is just the way things really are.
— Mww
Anyone who does that is truly naive, both philosophically and scientifically. One might be a direct realist, but it does take more work than just "things are exactly as they look". Or at least I hope they bother to do the work.
Because if not, their lack of philosophical rigor will be called out. Lazy bastards! — Marchesk
Because that's how it is! — creativesoul
Because that's how it is!
— creativesoul
Nonsense. Unless you can taste wavefunctions and see X-Rays.
I bet you can't even do sonar! — Marchesk
Understanding that conscious experience consists of correlations drawn between different things is just the start of a very disciplined practice. — creativesoul
Absolutely. And you’re the only current participant that even attempts an exposition of some form of the discipline, even if it’s your own personal creation. I’m down with the attempting the discipline, but promise nothing regarding the practice of it. — Mww
Nowadays folks tend to think what we perceive is just the way things really are.
— Mww
Anyone who does that is truly naive...... — Marchesk
The issue you want to develop is how we attribute beliefs to others, including those of the feline persuasion. — Banno
Beliefs set out a relation of a particular sort between an agent and a proposition. — Banno
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