What is, democracy?
Its a jeopardy-like answer to a jeopardy-like question. — javra
No more fascism, but you're not banning people from thinking it (because no one can) you're only sending the discourse underground. — BitconnectCarlos
I never read Heideggar but he might be gone too. — BitconnectCarlos
Is that what you think the aims of anti-fascism are? Just to drive fascism underground? — Kenosha Kid
The "end" of anti-fascism is for there to be no more believers in fascism — BitconnectCarlos
So you're willing to agree that antifascist actions can be necessary, when they are a "last resort", what is sufficient evidence that the situation is a "last resort"? What made you believe the example that I gave you was a last resort when there was notable police presence at the demonstration? — fdrake
Right, so this will leave no-one to express fascist ideas. And that's the extent to which anti-fascism censors fascism. No one is invading Klan meetings on private property. If fascists deface property with vile fascist slogans, they get cleaned up. If fascists have public matches, anti-fascists march against them. If fascists respond violently, they are met with violence.
Tbh I think your argument was lost when you described Antifa as systematically violent but the KKK not. That's so divorced from reality and betrays such a bias toward violent right-wing racist murderers as to make your position indefensible. — Kenosha Kid
No, again, the fascists will just be driven underground, like drug use in the war on drugs or alcohol during prohibition. — BitconnectCarlos
What antifa wants is to ban any expression of it including books or blog posts. — BitconnectCarlos
in fact I usually don't because it's unproductive — BitconnectCarlos
They don't have the power to do that, but they're free to suggest it. :razz: — frank
What kind of fascist did you talk to? Just curious. — frank
yeah it's all fun and games as long as they're not in power. — BitconnectCarlos
It would be absurd to lay down any absolute philosophical principle for when to call in armed, antifascist groups. — BitconnectCarlos
You're just going to have to go by the specific situation and ask yourself questions like how many right-wingers we're expecting to show up, do the right wingers have a history of violence, what is the police presence like, how about the presence of counter-protesters who may provide a "check" but not be antifa themselves? here in boston we had a right wing rally back in 2017 where like 50 right-wingers showed up and tens of thousands of counter-protesters with a strong police presence, do we really need to call in antifa here? — BitconnectCarlos
You're just going to have to go by the specific situation and ask yourself questions like how many right-wingers we're expecting to show up,
do the right wingers have a history of violence
what is the police presence like
Read again the context of what I was saying. — BitconnectCarlos
No, again, the fascists will just be driven underground — BitconnectCarlos
I'm not asking for absolutes. I'm asking you to detail what convinced you antifa was necessary in the historical example I gave you. — fdrake
So now you're back to saying the ideal of anti-fascism (which is the point in hand) is to drive fascism underground. — Kenosha Kid
No, I'm saying the actual policy of banning fascist speech & expression drives fascism underground. — BitconnectCarlos
And as we've already agreed, Antifa is not a reformist organisation. They are not trying to ban anything. — Kenosha Kid
The word fascism has lost a great deal of its meaning, an already hard-to-understand idea and now it's even more difficult for the average westerner to understand and identify. — Judaka
Nobody is against cleaning up swastikas from building, but you can't go around punching fascists simply for speaking, sorry. — BitconnectCarlos
Duh, obviously. — BitconnectCarlos
One of these days I should just pick a random argument with you and misinterpret everything you say. — BitconnectCarlos
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