How does something that isn't there, say anything? You look at that statue of Colston, for example - and are offended by it. It means something different to you now than it meant to those who erected it, and it will mean something different again to subsequent generations. Who the giddy fuck are you to insist your current opinion, not only trumps that of previous generations, but removes it from the consideration of all subsequent generations? — counterpunch
What do you see? You see an anti western target for your politically correct virtue signalling - a myopic, self righteous view based on the lie that slavery was a particular cruelty invented and practiced by white people, against black people - because they're black. You think slavery was racism. But white people didn't go out and capture black people and force them into slavery. They bought slaves from black people; trading Western manufactured goods - cloth and metal tools for slaves, then trading salves for sugar and spices in the Americas, and then back to Europe to sell the sugar and spices. — counterpunch
You despise the very civilisation that ended slavery — counterpunch
and if you have your anti western way
During that two hours, did you perchance - go back and read my post? Or just spend it thinking up another one liner? — counterpunch
First, don't let the populism of Trump distract you here. Just because the GOP in America is in chaos doesn't mean that conservatism around the World is in chaos and has been defeated by right-wing populists. That's a false narrative, which naturally is eagerly upheld by people from the left.In any case, there was a time when I valued these views; I still do, though not as I once did. But now it seems a repository for bigotry, jingoism, nationalism and is anti-science and anti-reason. — Ciceronianus the White
the argument you've made applies to any action which goes against a tradition, — fdrake
Just because the GOP in America is in chaos doesn't mean that conservatism around the World is in chaos and has been defeated by right-wing populists. — ssu
I'd already read your post. I assume you're just into dealing with even the obvious criticisms of it. — Kenosha Kid
You're indifferent to statues, but support tearing them down. Yeah, that makes sense. — counterpunch
I used the term "you" in a collective sense - meaning, you left wing types. It came across as personal to you, and was more aggressive in tone than I intended. For that I apologise — counterpunch
This obvious left wing hypocrisy can only be achieved by denying the ubiquity of slavery to the human condition, and that's not a lesson you want to forget. Those statues should make you aware, and happy you live in a society and era that allows for individual liberty. Yet you, lefties - protest against the very society, philosophies and economic system that afford you that freedom. You act as if freedom is some natural default setting. It's not. Slavery is the default - and freedom is hard won. So no, it's not quite: — counterpunch
t's that you falsify the history to forge a weapon against the very system that affords you the freedom to have an opinion, and to express it. You turn our own achievements against us - and it's just dishonest. We have multi-cultural societies, and have set racial equality in law, but it's still not good enough for you lefties - because, when it comes down to it, you're playing identity politics, and it's a power game. It's you lefties stirring up racial animosity for political advantage - not the right. Western society isn't institutionally racist, there isn't a racist genocide being committed by the police. It's all a lie. You politically correct lefties are the real racists, only you're racist against white people so that's okay then! . — counterpunch
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that.Nuclear fusion will never be a viable power source on earth. — counterpunch
Economists like Menger and others have far earlier shown how flawed the theories are, but the most obvious example is the little if meaningless impact of Marxian economics in current economics. — ssu
I do agree with you that capitalism is not only not the problem, it's the only game in town, as socialism is simply a re-distribution scheme and communism, a pipe-dream.
It's just a matter of rooting out the corruption which has pretty much paralyzed all systems. — synthesis
Tobias should be enlisted to do this — The Opposite
Communists censors everyone who is not in line with the Ingsoc's dogmas. — Rafaella Leon
First, you might want to deal with obvious criticisms of the grammatical structure of your attempt at a sentence. — counterpunch
Then, you may wish to give my post a reasonable response. — counterpunch
Or, alternatively, you could just get fucked off. — counterpunch
You're right. I should have limited my comments to the state of conservatism in the U.S. Here, it seems, we're witnessing a sort of rebirth of the views held by the John Birch Society, which was once denounced by conservatives.
It's "get fucked" or "fuck off" — Kenosha Kid
It's possible to get fucked off. As in "You better shut you're mouth pal before I really get fucked off with you." — bert1
I don't think nuclear fusion can work in earth gravity. — counterpunch
Carl Menger lived from 1840 to 1921, hence this isn't anything new. Marxist economics has been questioned right from the start and rightly so.Have you been living under a rock the past 12 years? Marxist economics has been vilified for years. — Benkei
Well, Marxists have allways said that it has experienced a revival. I thought Neo-Marxian economics was a big thing in leftist circles in the 1970's and 1980's with guys like Paul Sweezy.Like any theory about human action it's flawed but it's definitely experiencing a revival since 2008. — Benkei
Explain a bit more what you mean by this, if you have the time.The way forward is heterogenous economics and Marx is part of it. — Benkei
If capitalism would be so all encompassing greed, how do you explain then that even with capitalism many countries do have a lot of social cohesion and are just fine with things like the welfare state. Bismarck wasn't a leftist, but he went on with social-welfare legislation.What if the corruption is part and parcel of capitalism though? A capitalist system allows an ever accelerating accumulation of wealth. This is in a way what everyone in a capitalist system ultimately strives for - not just to be rich, but to get exponentially richer. — Echarmion
The fate of conservatism is to be dragged in a direction not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of politics. Because they cannot alter change, and due to a fondness for authority and order, conservatives are often the hand-maiden of socialism, insofar as compromises and appeasement have led to greater state control (See Bismarck and the foundation of the modern welfare state). This control has not only served to hinder the rise of socialism, but also any path to liberty. — NOS4A2
If capitalism would be so all encompassing greed, how do you explain then that even with capitalism many countries do have a lot of social cohesion and are just fine with things like the welfare state. — ssu
SSU says things like Marx has been proven wrong because supply and demand explain the economy better and yet thinks to be taken seriously. — Maw
There is no necessary and direct connection between the value of a good and whether, or in what quantities, labor and other goods of higher order were applied to its production. A non-economic good (a quantity of timber in a virgin forest, for example) does not attain value for men since large quantities of labor or other economic goods were not applied to its production. Whether a diamond was found accidentally or was obtained from a diamond pit with the employment of a thousand days of labor is completely irrelevant for its value. In general, no one in practical life asks for the history of the origin of a good in estimating its value, but considers solely the services that the good will render him and which he would have to forgo if he did not have it at his command...The quantities of labor or of other means of production applied to its production cannot, therefore, be the determining factor in the value of a good.
I think people understand that societies made up of capitalists are far more complex than that. Let's remember that capitalism is private ownership of trade and industry while the classic definition of socialism is ownership of these by the community. Modern social democracy doesn't strive for that anymore, just to "curb the excesses of a market economy", hence just to regulate capitalism, in my view.A welfare state is a counterbalance to capitalism, keeping its excesses in check. Without one capitalism would eat itself alive. — Pfhorrest
Imagine a forum without right wingers — Maw
What if the corruption is part and parcel of capitalism though? A capitalist system allows an ever accelerating accumulation of wealth. This is in a way what everyone in a capitalist system ultimately strives for - not just to be rich, but to get exponentially richer. — Echarmion
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